Deaf Community . . . Autistic Community . . .

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Would you say that the autistic community is sort of like the Deaf community? I mean, the Deaf community has their views on subjects that are often entirely different than the rest of the population . . . like cochlear implants for one.

I was talking to a friend who knows I have Aspergers, and asked her of what she thought of the idea of a cure for Autism. Predictably, she said she was all for it, and I told her, that as a future music therapist, she really needed to research it some, since there are so many people who actually are autistic who are totally anti-cure. At first, I don't think she believed me. And then I explained it to her. You know, like how taking away the "bad" takes away the good too and all that. I didn't just say that, but that was probably what she took away.

What do you think about the possible similarities between the two communities?

Reason I'm asking is because in our classes (as music therapy majors - I'm in grad school btw), we learn about the Deaf Community, but never about the Autistic one. I was thinking about emailing my teacher some links about how a lot of us feel.

Well im very involved with the deaf community as well, due to me trying to become a sign language interpreter, which is mad hard haha. Anyways back to my point, some similiarities are... we both don't want anything that will change the way we live right now, meaning we don't want our brain wiring changed, just like they don't like cochalor implants, yea i misspelled that, my bad haha. They also accept each other even if some are mildly hearing impaired, rather then completely deaf, as we accept people who are mildly autistic, to severely autistic.

I goto events like jingo which is bingo for the deaf, asl rock and roll show, where its all done in sign, deaf bowling where everybody signs, to asl theater, where they have deaf comedians. I would love to see a theater where its all done by autistics, or autistic comedians, or autistic bingo haha, like in simpsons, and its like b5...you sunk my battle ship haha, yes i would be the one saying that haha.

The deaf also have like awareness days where they have vendors, carnivals, clowns, the works, and it always gets me thinking that we should have more autism awareness days. I know the month of april is autism awareness but it would be cool to have more times a year. We also have like a sign meet we all have to go to, and everybody has to use their hands, rather then their voice to speak, very hard, but its because its almost like your in the deaf community, you respect it by using sign instead of voice. We should have something like, you can only handflap to show excitement rather then smile haha, or have a sign "no jokes or sarcasm allowed unless you are willing for people to just be like "huh"? all the time", I would be so happy to go there and actually be able to be myself, and not feel like i have to act a certian way, because nothing will be inappropriate, or "wrong" in everybody elses eyes!

Responding to Age1600,

When my nonverbal autism plus daughter was doing auditory therapy, I remember how good it felt to be around people that my daughter could not faze. When she threw her clothes in the toilet, the secretary wondered if the seams in the clothes bothered her. Temple Grandin's squeeze machine was there in the office, and I explained it to my mother. I guess my daughter listened because she got in it correctly and waited to be squeezed. We squeezed her and she liked it.
I like being around deaf people, but my eyes are just too slow to follow the conversation. But when I sign "help me!" they all rush over to do so.

Well, I just HAPPEN to know something about how the deaf feel! I actually watched DEAF shows(translated for the hearing, or with captions, of course) On some of those shows, they spoke of it. ALSO, the idea of cochlear implants is interesting, so I researched it a bit.

Last I knew, Cochlear implants where like digital cameras. The more expensive and newer ones have better resolution. The cheap old ones may not be good for many, if any, conversations. Even the newest and most expensive may be relatively worthless for older people, due to the need to acclimate yourself to the sensation. SO, it is not the panacea some think.

One show I watched was pretty interesting. The host was TOTALLY deaf, and had an interpreter for the hearing! For the most part, outside of social interests for the deaf, he spoke with business owners that were in the deaf community. One had a row of lights around the ceiling that lit up when people entered.

Anyway, they view their kids as normal, and want to communicate as a family. They view the attempt to change as almost the act of a traitor.

I have to say, that sign language DOES have its merits. I have often envied those that can communicate across a noisy room via sign.

Age1600,

So how good are you at instantaneous translation? I wouldn't even ATTEMPT it, as I am HORRIBLE! You said you were HFA, but I think my deficiencies here ARE kind of common for AS people.

I don't relate at all to the deaf community being autistic. And I am also mildly hard of hearing. My neighbors are deaf and they are the rudest, most obnoxious people I have encountered.

The guy drinks a case of beer a night then screams at his assistive living dogs till 4am. They smoke pot, grow pot and have lots of rowdy worthless deaf friends over partying. Their dogs attack me if I go outside and I have been injured twice by the mutts and have been in physical therapy over 5 months because of them. So hell no I don't relate at all to them because I try to be more considerate of people than they do. I also try to associate with more than one kind of people whereas they associate only with other deafs. They definitely have their very own culture, but I don't see how its like autistic culture.

I'm bad at facial expressions and body language and those are key things in the deaf community, but just like lelia said, they are so willing to help and rush right over if your struggling. I have to watch videos literally ten times just to try to imitate their facial expressions and body language. Thanks to asl sites, it has pause, fast forward, even slow motion during the videos. Sign language is mostly visual so thats a plus haha. I love signing though, it helps when you become non-verbal, and need a way of communicating. One of my deaf professors, also taught at a school where she teaches non-verbal children and non-verbal autistic children so when i explained i was autistic, she worked with me very well, in fact, i had to recently stop going to the classes due to so many health problems, and instead of failing me or dropping me out of the program, she just withdraw me from the classes, and i can return in the spring, so im excited about that!

I've also met deaf adults and children who have a cochlear implants(thanks for the spelling 2ukenkerl by the way haha) and they still are very involved in the deaf community, yet feel like their missing something, like one lady told me she actually didn't mind having no hearing, after she got the implants, she felt like it took a special part of her away, that part that makes her unique. She told me, if she could turn back time, she would rather be deaf again, hearing isn't everything, everybody else just needs to learn to accept the deaf. I was like wow, i totally understood, acceptance is what this world really needs. I also met a teenage girl who has hearing aids to help her hear, without them, shes completely deaf, and she said every now and then she loves just being able to turn off that hearing aid, and be once again part of the deaf community, she was like i feel like i belong there more because i was born deaf, thats who i am, the hearing aid just helps me but doesn't define me. Another great insight i got!

I think the another good similiarity about the deaf and autistic community is its not the way you look, its how you act that defines us. Deaf people are actually very loud, and act very animated because thats how it is in the deaf community, like in the autistic community, its all about behavior and the way we show emotion that defines us. We both seem like were acting, when in reality, were just being us!

The thing that seperates us the most is that the deaf all usually have the same thing wrong, even if its mild to severe, but in the autistic community, every autistic is different!

Not every deaf person is rude or nasty, and not every autistic is nice and sweet. The main reason i say that is because everyday im involved in both worlds, either it be working with autistic children, helping run social groups with them, and their families, and work with deaf children and deaf parents, i've seen each side, been to both autistic carnivals/fundraisers and deaf events. I know some people are nasty, and what you just described, i wouldn't blame you for getting upset with them and im sorry you've met such nasty deaf people.

There do not appear to be too many parallels. The one thing they do have in common as distinct sub-cultures is not striving to become anything but what they are. I can understand the autistic perspective of not wanting to get cured, but not the deafs wanting to stay deaf.

Yea i thought that too, i couldn't imagine life without my hearing, but all of them grew up without their hearing, and learned to sign to communicate, so when people started making cochlear implants to make sure they will be no more deaf people, a lot of the older deaf people got offended. Its funny, i also thought all deaf people couldn't talk, but i was wrong, a lot of younger deaf people learned how to speak before they signed.

I also remember even asking one of older deaf members wouldn't you like to hear especially when you were a child, she replied, yes sometimes i did get very frustrated, but i would never actually get that cochlear implant if it was out when i was growing up, i'm proud to be apart of this wonderful community.

Also cochlear implants, are an iffy thing, theres always that chance that it won't work, thats why most people aren't recommending it. I knew a boy who was hearing impaired not deaf, got an cochlear implant, lost all of his hearing, now hes the fastest signer ever haha, and hes 13!

I also even met a deaf/blind person who communicates through signing in hands...wow was that hard to do, but after loosing both those big senses, their sense of touch became absolutely amazing, and when they would sign back, it took me forever to figure out what they were signing, because it was hard watching the sign, then trying to feel it at the same time.

Haha i just realized, i havent typed this much in a month due to this broken arm, and now im using it to type with the cast haha, shh don't tell my dr, he thinks i rest it 24-7 haha. anyways sorry for getting off topic again haha, but yea i can understand why people want the implant, and why a lot don't also!

Ticker,

Nobody claimed that all deaf people are autistic. Most certainly aren't. The only real link is that they both have cultures that outsiders see as having problems, but that THEY don't.

No, I'm not saying that the two communities are interexchangeable or that deaf folks are autistic . . . no it's about how the two communities are similar in the way that they react to the rest of the world . . .

Hmmm... I'm not deaf, but trying to think like someone who is deaf... I guess they might feel like our inability to understand why they wouldn't want to be able to hear is an insult to them as people, like we seem to see them as so terribly handicapped as to be inferior to hearing people.

Perhaps, to a deaf person, it's like saying, "of course you should want to be able to hear like us, because look how useless you are not being able to hear!"

And it would seem to someone who feels this way that any deaf person who wanted to get an implant and be able to hear is buying into that idea, that deaf people are really lesser beings to hearing people.

Again, thats what I guess might be a reason for it.

When I came up with the concept of neurelitism, I modeled it after audism in the deaf community:

http://www.audism.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audism

http://audism.com/

I am totally anti-cure. I joined WP cuz I saw a few other autistic signers on this forum. I'm trying to meet other autistic signers cuz the Deaf just wanna work 24/7 or as close to 24/7 as the labor laws will let them. I LOVE all the benefits of signing such as that it does NOT employ sound, enabling clear communication noisy places without shouting. I refuse to speak most of the time. I'm quite isolated cuz I can't find any other tactile signers to get with. I had to give up on the Deaf cuz they work too much or lie on me about how much they work. They just want nothing to do with me and would rather not admit that.

The best experience I had with the Signing Community was when I was with the Deaf-BLIND in 2003. They read the signs by feeling them with their hands. I actually like tactile signing better than visual signing by now. The problem is...the Deaf-Blind are too bothered by my symptoms. They all pushed me away in 2004 and have wanted nothing to do with me for 3 years. I joined DBSocial ListServ 3 times trying to find new DB friends, and many of the people refused to learn about my condition. They tried to tell me they were nice, but the way they told me to keep quiet about my condition was very rude of them. Heather Schoenwald on another ListServ list told me the Deaf-Blind are "like a big family & will kick my a** out". Well she had no business telling me that. So now I feel like I'm committed to a lifetime of rejection from the Signing Community unless I sign with other autistic signers AND find a psychiatrist who knows sign.

The Deaf view their inability to hear as a mere difference to be proud of. I think we should view our conditions as mere differences to be proud of. I also agree with the comments about awareness days. Our conditions are NOT widely known about outside of our community and that is such a damn shame!

3 years ago on TV I saw a blind autistic boy reading tactile signs from his sighted Deaf parents. Autistic people like him are who I really wanna meet, if I can't get back with the Deaf-Blind.

Most Deaf-Blind people don't work at all. Quite a few work PART-time but NONE work full-time. So, the Deaf-Blind are the best signers to sign with. They give human touch in ways that feel very good to me. I miss the Deaf-Blind, but I must move out of state to get back with them and I don't know where to move to get back with the Deaf-Blind. Another member of WP told me to try Milwaukee, WI, but the weather up there is not really good for me. They get so much snow in the winter time and I might not be able to go out sometimes if I moved there.

I actually taught myself to read tactile signs in 2003. It's easy for me cuz my visual & tactile systems work very well together, so as long as I've seen something, and it's safe to touch, I can also recognize it by touching it with my hands. Of course the signs of ASL are safe to touch.

Since I was 18 I've been more and more comfortable signing and less & less comfortable speaking. I am still fairly comfortable with written English though, so I went ahead & joined this forum cuz it uses written English. Plus I still use my TTY for telecommunications over the phone. I REFUSE to get a videophone cuz I can only read signs either close-up visually or tactually like the Deaf-Blind do. Besides that I only wanna read signs tactually anyway, and I can only do that in-person.

Lastly, I strongly agree that when you become non-verbal and you need a way to communicate, ASL is the way. I LOVE ASL ! I am such a proud signer. I just want new friends to sign with, and I prefer that they read me tactually, since I will be reading them tactually even though my visual impairment is only borderline. I am mostly nonverbal, and someday I will make sure I become completely non-verbal. Healthcare providers & legal officials who don't know sign need to start paying my interpreters! I should NOT have to pay my interpreters!

In sociology, we sometimes use a term, the matrix of domination, to refer to the interlocking grid or network of oppressions in a society (like the U.S.).

It is overly simplistic to collapse all oppressions into one or to argue that "all oppressions are the same." However, once one has developed a sense of one's own status (or multiple statuses) as an oppressed person (racism, classism, ethnicism, sexism, neurelitism, audism, heterosexism/homophobia, etc.), it becomes possible to look for commonalities (as well as differences) with persons who experience other types of oppression.

There are many similarities between the experiences of the deaf with audism and those on the autism spectrum with neurelitism. Each community, IMO, can learn from the other.

My suggestion: Go to this website:

http://www.audism.tv

Then select "Interview with Cari" from the menu on the right.

Profound hearing loss, and the problems it brings are totally different than AS, even though they sometimes seem related. It is very maddening, if you have a partial hearing loss, to hear something one way (even with ear-level aids) and then to say it, and be laughed at. Most hearing-impared people are NT, and they solve their problems in groups (strength in numbers), but unlss you have some radical new theory, don't confuse profound hearing loss with AS. They are two different phenomenon, and should be treated very differently.

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