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2ukenkerl
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26 Nov 2007, 12:05 am

frankwah wrote:
I have a problem with the statement "Aspies are average or above average intelligence."

Obviously, they're talking about aspies in general, so why say they're one of two things? (average, OR above average intelligence) Either they, as a group, are above average in intelligence, or they're not. If they're not talking in generalizations, then it would be more accurate to say "Aspies are lower than average, average, or above average intelligence." which of course, tells us nothing.

It's confusing. Ain't it? It's like saying, the average IQ of this group is 105 or 120. Well... which is it?! There can only be one average.


You misunderstand! Inventor was talking about the old DSM that said they had to be average or above intelligence. If you were lower, you would be HFA. Of course, there were other things that could put you in HFA so you could be very smart and HFA also. And HFA requires an IQ of like 70 or above, so there IS a floor THERE also!



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26 Nov 2007, 12:06 am

They are rating intelligence by the measurement of IQ scores.

I looked at a chart here describing "What Different IQ Scores Mean":

Over 140 - Genius or near genius
120 - 140 - Very superior intelligence
110 - 119 - Superior intelligence
90 - 109 - Normal or average intelligence
80 - 89 - Dullness
70 - 79 - Borderline deficiency
Under 70 - Definite feeble-mindedness

But if you want my honest opinion, there is not a single test you can take that will remotely determine any type of intelligence.

I think "Aspies" fool themselves into thinking they are smart because they do good in school and/or get good test scores when they only real way that I could measure intelligence is by evaluating the choices people make.

I couldn't evaluate my own intelligence because obviously every choice I choose to make is the choice that I think is the right one :).

In fact, I don't think you can determine intelligence because it seems to me in like 99% of real life situations everyone else is basically always the same. They always make the same decisions and they always let bad judgment get in the way.



ShadesOfMe
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26 Nov 2007, 12:17 am

yes.



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26 Nov 2007, 12:20 am

I don't even know what my IQ is.



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26 Nov 2007, 12:36 am

My internet IQ falls within 120-140 category, as well as my NT brother's. However, my standardized test scores (the tests that matter which I didn't worry about until now) lag badly. Lars Perner once said that divergent thinkers tend to diverge out of the standardized scales.


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Danielismyname
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26 Nov 2007, 1:54 am

The whole normal or above average IQ thingy is there to make people feel better; you aren't like the dumb auties where only 1/4 are normal, the rest subnormal.



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26 Nov 2007, 2:33 am

What throws me is is it normal, 90 to 109 or above, or average 100 or above. Either way it cuts off the bottom, hence overall higher scores.

I would say I got more from obsession, than from intelligence. I have it, it was never that useful, compared to persistance, which works most of the time.

Smart I would define as doing what works for you.

After a six months study of AS, a recent discovery, I still conclude Psychology is a total fraud.

They have yet to grasp basic number use, and have defined a Syndrome comprising 6,853% out of which we each get 100%, and no two the same.

There are bright people with quirks, always have been, but we can make some money off of them.

I am smart enought to spot a con when I see it.

Millions of us just grew up, worked, lived, married, had children, I think we are more of the business owners. We wanted to do it our way, it worked for us.

Since 1994 I hear of the same group needing drugs, thearpy, and then not developing, not going on into life, all I can see is treatment is causing more harm, and some people are making money off off it.

Compared to Psychology, History is a Hard Science. Does a Masters in History confer the power to arrange future History? Despense drugs to induce Historically Correct Behavior?

I will do what works for me.



GoatOnFire
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26 Nov 2007, 2:56 am

3 things to remember while debating this:

1. Smart does not equal intelligent.

2. Smartness is all relative anyway.

3. What the hell is with the football players are dumb stereotype?


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2ukenkerl
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26 Nov 2007, 5:33 am

Brian003 wrote:
They are rating intelligence by the measurement of IQ scores.

I looked at a chart here describing "What Different IQ Scores Mean":

Over 140 - Genius or near genius
120 - 140 - Very superior intelligence
110 - 119 - Superior intelligence
90 - 109 - Normal or average intelligence
80 - 89 - Dullness
70 - 79 - Borderline deficiency
Under 70 - Definite feeble-mindedness

But if you want my honest opinion, there is not a single test you can take that will remotely determine any type of intelligence.

I think "Aspies" fool themselves into thinking they are smart because they do good in school and/or get good test scores when they only real way that I could measure intelligence is by evaluating the choices people make.

I couldn't evaluate my own intelligence because obviously every choice I choose to make is the choice that I think is the right one :).

In fact, I don't think you can determine intelligence because it seems to me in like 99% of real life situations everyone else is basically always the same. They always make the same decisions and they always let bad judgment get in the way.


I think we all know that. The IQ test was ORIGINALLY done to EXCLUDE the idea of retardation. HECK, the SAT in the US was originally used as a kind of Scholastic IQ test to determine intelligence for school.

ALSO, IQ only covers like 3-4 of 7 defined intelligences.

Still, if you have a high IQ, it DOES mean intelligence to a degree, and in an area.

Still, it won't test my ability for electronics, or anothers for anatomy, etc....

FURTHER, when people talk of stupidity, etc... it comes down to IQ at some point. What other COMMON guideline is there?

If you are looking for a PRECISE measurement, it will NEVER happen!



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26 Nov 2007, 7:54 am

RainSong wrote:
Kitsy wrote:
There are alot of smart people on this board. Are people who suggest otherwise blinded by footballs?


Interestingly enough, out of all the students in our school, I would say the football players, on average, tend to be smarter than the band. Perhaps it's because they're required to keep up a certain GPA (whereas the band is not), but I know of at least two who generally have 4.0s (in other words, straight As or higher), which is above the line. Obviously, that's just the school I go to, but it's worth noting that not all stereotypes are accurate.


What school do you go to? At my old one band kids were cut for low grades, and the smartest kids were there... In fact Acedemic Challenge was completely made up of band kids. Football players also tended to follow the stereotype, to a point. I must admit, there were a few nice ones though.



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26 Nov 2007, 8:08 am

On paper, I have a high IQ and was always in the top 2% at high school. However, I have virtually no concept of how to develop or apply or consider abstract ideas - the whole thing usually just floors me and leaves me totally confused.

Even though I'm relatively good artist, even with that I can't "do abstract". It has to be a clear representation of a real object.



2ukenkerl
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26 Nov 2007, 12:12 pm

Goche21 wrote:
RainSong wrote:
Kitsy wrote:
There are alot of smart people on this board. Are people who suggest otherwise blinded by footballs?


Interestingly enough, out of all the students in our school, I would say the football players, on average, tend to be smarter than the band. Perhaps it's because they're required to keep up a certain GPA (whereas the band is not), but I know of at least two who generally have 4.0s (in other words, straight As or higher), which is above the line. Obviously, that's just the school I go to, but it's worth noting that not all stereotypes are accurate.


What school do you go to? At my old one band kids were cut for low grades, and the smartest kids were there... In fact Acedemic Challenge was completely made up of band kids. Football players also tended to follow the stereotype, to a point. I must admit, there were a few nice ones though.


I have known teachers to let students skip tests and class, AND get As(Even for mediocre work), if they were in sports! Frankly, I have NEVER known such a thing to happen for band unless it happened for sports also. And band requires precision and the use of parts of the mind that sports just doesn't. You would think, all else being equal, that GOOD band members would be smarter. BTW I was neither in band NOR sports. HECK, look at commercials to save classes, or movies, and you will see that others CLEARLY feel as I do. Band is UNDERappreciated and sports teams are given too many privileges.



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26 Nov 2007, 1:18 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
-Vorzac- wrote:
people who think they're smart rarely are. those that truly are feel inadaquate about what they don't know, as opposed to superior becuase of what they do, and only feel smart when others say so. I do not feel like an intellegent or articulate person, but my friends say otherwise.


WOW, MORE backward thinking! As a WHOLE, I agree with you. HOWEVER, I, and many others here that have said they were smart, HAVE indicated that we have weak areas we would like to improve on. HECK, the social IQ of most people on this board, myself included, is certainly sub par.

Interestingly, I hold myself to a higher standard than my friends/coworkers, and sometimes don't like it when they say I am smart because of some minor thing I have done. So that speaks against YOUR methods ALSO!


:?

you really, really need to stop holding grudges. Explain to me how my thinking is backward when you AGREE with it? I'm not saying people DON'T have room to improve, in fact I agree, but I think the fact that you say you think you are smart and yet use a phrase like 'Social IQ' proves my point, QED. Your social ABILITIES obviously need some work. You consider yourself superior to others, which is a very narrow-minded point of view that I doubt you'd find buddhist monks go around telling everyone how much better they are beucase they are closer to enlightenment. Instead, they are humble about their knowledge and share it with humility. See, you THINK you're smart, but you're not articulating it well to me.



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26 Nov 2007, 1:23 pm

i am very smart!! !!!1111 :twisted:



2ukenkerl
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26 Nov 2007, 2:37 pm

-Vorzac- wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
-Vorzac- wrote:
people who think they're smart rarely are. those that truly are feel inadaquate about what they don't know, as opposed to superior becuase of what they do, and only feel smart when others say so. I do not feel like an intellegent or articulate person, but my friends say otherwise.


WOW, MORE backward thinking! As a WHOLE, I agree with you. HOWEVER, I, and many others here that have said they were smart, HAVE indicated that we have weak areas we would like to improve on. HECK, the social IQ of most people on this board, myself included, is certainly sub par.

Interestingly, I hold myself to a higher standard than my friends/coworkers, and sometimes don't like it when they say I am smart because of some minor thing I have done. So that speaks against YOUR methods ALSO!


:?

you really, really need to stop holding grudges. Explain to me how my thinking is backward when you AGREE with it? I'm not saying people DON'T have room to improve, in fact I agree, but I think the fact that you say you think you are smart and yet use a phrase like 'Social IQ' proves my point, QED. Your social ABILITIES obviously need some work. You consider yourself superior to others, which is a very narrow-minded point of view that I doubt you'd find buddhist monks go around telling everyone how much better they are beucase they are closer to enlightenment. Instead, they are humble about their knowledge and share it with humility. See, you THINK you're smart, but you're not articulating it well to me.


Holding grudges!?!?!? What grudge? The idea of hatred being acceptance/fear, and believing that you are smart makes you dumb IS backwards. And I said ON THE WHOLE I agree with you. Taken as a group, people claiming they are smart often aren't. Ever notice how companies that mention quality in their names tend to not have quality products?

Hey, I don't need, or care, about any acceptance from you. I am also not screaming things from the mountain top, etc... And I have mentioned several areas I am weak in, and don't consider myself superior to most others there. Apparently, I AM better in math than many, but that isn't saying anything great about me, but bad about them. I am not that great with math. But hey, if you think I am deluded, so be it. I'll indulge in my perceived delusion. As for the grudge? You're paranoid. :lol:

BTW I HAVE shared knowledge with humility. I have even shared pretty freely.



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26 Nov 2007, 3:45 pm

I think they're alot of us who are smart ,but just beause you have a high IQ doen't really mean much. you are what you are.