Goth girls, and approaching girls at night clubs is scary...

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Birdgirl
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19 Dec 2007, 9:33 am

Then why continue going there..? You might find another girl elsewhere that happens to be wonderful but not necessarily gothic looking.. Or is that not an option? I mean, you seem determined, but what if you never find any.

And goths aren't automatically pretentious (people are pretentious), I think it's just certain areas and hang-outs that attract the snotty, gother-than-thou people. (You know, like in the South Park episode)

The only thing I can think of is looking online for people near you and then meeting. There are dating websites for "gothic singles", in fact.
Still though, I highly doubt that the Goths of your land congregate *only* at that club. Surely they have hobbies other than lurking at clubs-- at least the type that you're looking for. I know when I was goth I would have never stepped foot in a place like that; I went to bookstores, the library, the park etc.

Have you tried going to concerts? And are there any occult/newage bookstores around where you live..?

Or, you could just wait until this goth fetish of yours goes away and find another girl in the meantime.


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sarahstilettos
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19 Dec 2007, 10:27 am

I would say its much easier to get talking to people at gigs - the music's that little bit quieter between bands and its reasonably easy to think of an excuse to get talking to the person next to you - especially if people are moving around/knocking into each other a lot.

You are very rude about the majority of people who go to these clubs. I can't see this attitude sitting well with the kind of girls who are going after - you are saying that people who could well be her close friends are 'obese', 'have ugly faces' etc. Also, it places you in the catergory of guys who only approach girls in clubs they want to sleep with, never just to make friends and have fun. I don't necessarily think its shallow to want a goth girl, we all have the things we find attractive. I've got a thing about inked arm muscles that people would probably think is shallow. But I think it is shallow that you're going to ignore everyone in the club who isn't one of the beautiful people.

Going out with the intention of having a fun and having a dance, and talking to EVERYONE regardless of weight and looks is a good way to make yourself more attractive to girls. This is how all the 'most fancied' type men i know act.



Veresae
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19 Dec 2007, 3:41 pm

Birdgirl wrote:
Then why continue going there..? You might find another girl elsewhere that happens to be wonderful but not necessarily gothic looking.. Or is that not an option? I mean, you seem determined, but what if you never find any.


Well, firstly I continue going just because I enjoy dancing to the music. Heh. Just meeting people is problematic.

And yeah, I'm certainly open to falling in love with a girl who's not gothic, but it's kind of this...I don't know. I can't explain it. It's just a heavy preference. It's like, okay, I'd settle for someone who wasn't gothic if I really loved them in general, but they'd have to be able to appreciate the things I liked to a certain extent, and not just find it all weird and dark. s**t, I use "goth" as a vague term...it could mean geeky hippie metalhead girl who happens to have the goth look. I don't know.

Birdgirl wrote:
And goths aren't automatically pretentious (people are pretentious), I think it's just certain areas and hang-outs that attract the snotty, gother-than-thou people. (You know, like in the South Park episode)


My feelings exactly.

Birdgirl wrote:
The only thing I can think of is looking online for people near you and then meeting. There are dating websites for "gothic singles", in fact.


Yeah...but most of these aren't free, unfortunately. You can get free accounts in which you can only send "winks" but never actual messages to trade contact information. So just, "Hey, I like your profile, look at mine!" "Hey, I like yours back!" And then neither of you can do anything more than that if neither of you are paying for this.

Plus finding anyone on one of those sites that's actually NEAR you is problematic because oftentimes goths are so scattered. It's like using MySpace, except there are far fewer people and far more limited options.

Birdgirl wrote:
Still though, I highly doubt that the Goths of your land congregate *only* at that club. Surely they have hobbies other than lurking at clubs-- at least the type that you're looking for. I know when I was goth I would have never stepped foot in a place like that; I went to bookstores, the library, the park etc.


Well, the thing is whenever I go to places that don't pander exclusively to goths then I don't see ANY goths. I hang out at my school's library often (studying and what not), and never see any goths there. Parks aren't any different. Plus, even if I did I'd have the same problem of having to appraoch people--and in that case it'd be even more difficult because in bookstores and libraries you're supposed to be quiet. DX

Birdgirl wrote:
Have you tried going to concerts? And are there any occult/newage bookstores around where you live..?


I've only been to one concert; not too many of my favorite bands are coming around here to my knowledge, and sometimes when they do I only find out when the price has skyrocketed out of my budget, or at a time when I don't have anyone to go with. I only have a few friends who can tollerate the sort of dark music I like and oftentimes they get busy with other things, and going to a concert alone is kinda sucky. As for bookstores, there is one a keep meaning to look at.

Birdgirl wrote:
Or, you could just wait until this goth fetish of yours goes away and find another girl in the meantime.


If only it were that simple. For some people this isn't a phase.... DX



LePetitPrince
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19 Dec 2007, 3:46 pm

I hate nightclubs



Veresae
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19 Dec 2007, 3:50 pm

sarahstilettos wrote:
You are very rude about the majority of people who go to these clubs. I can't see this attitude sitting well with the kind of girls who are going after - you are saying that people who could well be her close friends are 'obese', 'have ugly faces' etc.


Well, it's not like I'm vocal about it. It's not like I won't even talk to such people, or insult them, or anything. It's just that I do have to be attracted to someone in order to have romantic attraction to someone. I wish that wasn't the case but it is. And I don't blame any girls for feeling the same way about guys--I do not expect anyone to approach someone they don't find attractive.

sarahstilettos wrote:
Also, it places you in the catergory of guys who only approach girls in clubs they want to sleep with, never just to make friends and have fun.


Um, WHAT? I have no interest in doing that at all! I want to find love, not mindless sex. That's totally putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting my intentions.

As for making friends, yeah, that'd be fun too, and I'd only want to be in a relationship with someone who I was friends with first. But a club is not a good place to meet friends in my opinion, because you don't know anything about the personalities of who you're approaching, and considering how difficult it is for me to approach people I'm not going to approach every single goddamn person in the club to get to know their personalities so I can see who I'd like to be friends with.

sarahstilettos wrote:
I don't necessarily think its shallow to want a goth girl, we all have the things we find attractive. I've got a thing about inked arm muscles that people would probably think is shallow. But I think it is shallow that you're going to ignore everyone in the club who isn't one of the beautiful people.


I don't ignore them. If one of them spoke to me I'd reply same as I would anyone. But if they don't have any interest in me I don't see why I should get interested in them so I can feel as dramatic and insecure about approaching them as I do for people I'm actually attracted to.

sarahstilettos wrote:
Going out with the intention of having a fun and having a dance, and talking to EVERYONE regardless of weight and looks is a good way to make yourself more attractive to girls. This is how all the 'most fancied' type men i know act.


I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be someone I'm not, and I am NOT someone who approaches EVERYONE. I'm not a conversation starter in general, and it's hard enough for me to make exceptions as it is. I refuse to be a completely different person just to be attractive.



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19 Dec 2007, 4:51 pm

Quote:

sarahstilettos wrote:
Quote:
Going out with the intention of having a fun and having a dance, and talking to EVERYONE regardless of weight and looks is a good way to make yourself more attractive to girls. This is how all the 'most fancied' type men i know act.



I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be someone I'm not, and I am NOT someone who approaches EVERYONE. I'm not a conversation starter in general, and it's hard enough for me to make exceptions as it is. I refuse to be a completely different person just to be attractive.


You know Veresae, sarahstilettos is couldnt be more Right.I said it before, and I'll say it again: if you goto clubs and start approaching pretty girls people(i.e.: WOMEN) are going to think you're a creepy, desperate loser who's just looking to score and sooner or later you'll start to get a very hostile reception. The kind of women who DO approach guys in clubs are almost Always
interested in nothing more than flirting. In fact, I dare say that most female nightclub patrons are Not there to meet guys.
Many women regard guys they meet in clubs as sketchy. Unless you're suave stud you're not gonna have much luck with that approach. If 'love' is what you're looking for, you want find it there. A lot of goth girls are cyber-savvy and some of 'em actually do use the.net to meet guys. Honestly, you as an aspie will most likely have better luck meeting girls online than hooking up with some clubchick. You also have to understand that your true intentions and the way you come across to a female stranger in a nightclub are often Not in agreement. Another thing I should like to warn you about is the fact that women are notorious for giving out Phoney Phone #s to guys they meet in clubs, so keep that in mind if you strike up a conversation and then try to get her #.



sepia
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19 Dec 2007, 5:10 pm

sorry, i have to giggle - this entire post reminds me of an episode of the mighty boosh where the two lead characters have a date with a couple of goth girls and one of them (howard) has less confidence with girls. his mate (vince) tells him to wear black and act cool, be dark. so howard tells them that he is dark - he once went for a picnic in a grave yard (they look unimpressed) he then adds (as if it would make a difference) that he took a dump on a grave stone.... ah well maybe you have to have seen it.

ok, i reckon you need to be a regular at a goth venue and just talk to everyone. i used to be a regular at a couple of gothic venues in london. it is funny but you can hangout for ages and have goths ignore you - it is something they do well. but once people have seen your face around for a while, and you are friendly, eventually you will be accepted. once people know that you are okay you will be able to meet goth women.



Veresae
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19 Dec 2007, 5:11 pm

D1nk0 wrote:
You know Veresae, sarahstilettos is couldnt be more Right.I said it before, and I'll say it again: if you goto clubs and start approaching pretty girls people(i.e.: WOMEN) are going to think you're a creepy, desperate loser who's just looking to score and sooner or later you'll start to get a very hostile reception.


All the more reason why I'm afraid to approach people!

D1nk0 wrote:
The kind of women who DO approach guys in clubs are almost Always
interested in nothing more than flirting. In fact, I dare say that most female nightclub patrons are Not there to meet guys.
Many women regard guys they meet in clubs as sketchy.


I believe you. But many women regard guys they meet on the net as sketchy, too.

D1nk0 wrote:
Unless you're suave stud you're not gonna have much luck with that approach. If 'love' is what you're looking for, you want find it there. A lot of goth girls are cyber-savvy and some of 'em actually do use the.net to meet guys. Honestly, you as an aspie will most likely have better luck meeting girls online than hooking up with some clubchick. You also have to understand that your true intentions and the way you come across to a female stranger in a nightclub are often Not in agreement. Another thing I should like to warn you about is the fact that women are notorious for giving out Phoney Phone #s to guys they meet in clubs, so keep that in mind if you strike up a conversation and then try to get her #.


Well thanks for destroying any hope I had left. What the f**k am I supposed to do? Tell me that. Am I supposed to join every freaking dumb-ass gothic dating site in existence, search every library and bookstore endlessly in the hopes that when I go there I'll happen to meet someone special and happen to get in the position to talk to them, go to concert after concert spending all kinds of money in the process just in the hopes of meeting someone? Tell me that.

Tell me WHAT I CAN FREAKING DO. You think I WANT to resort to the clubs? You think I'm not aware of the problems with it? This is in desperation, because it's one of the only things I can do.



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19 Dec 2007, 5:14 pm

sepia wrote:
ok, i reckon you need to be a regular at a goth venue and just talk to everyone. i used to be a regular at a couple of gothic venues in london. it is funny but you can hangout for ages and have goths ignore you - it is something they do well. but once people have seen your face around for a while, and you are friendly, eventually you will be accepted. once people know that you are okay you will be able to meet goth women.


I am a regular, I've been going there most nights since last spring, but as I've said many times now I can't just talk to everyone--even approaching one person is terrifying! And yeah, they are good at ignoring, I know that first hand.



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19 Dec 2007, 5:18 pm

Bear in mind people can't see into your head so they don't know that you go through agony thinking about approaching a person, and hence can only bear to approach a few people, the people you find attractive. Most people go to clubs to meet people - lots of people - because they like doing that. They want to make casual friends. They wouldn't understand why it is so terrifying for you to approach people. So the fact that you are only approaching attractive girls doesn't look to good to them? It makes you look like a shark, which is far from what you are, but most men a girl meets in a club who are only bothering to talk to the hot girls are looking for the most attractive person they can find to have a one night stand with that night. So seeing a man act in that way makes us really guarded.

I don't see how you can get around that without changing the way you act, and I'm afraid this will probably involve putting on a front a bit and trying to socialise with all kinds.



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19 Dec 2007, 5:31 pm

sarahstilettos wrote:
Bear in mind people can't see into your head so they don't know that you go through agony thinking about approaching a person, and hence can only bear to approach a few people, the people you find attractive.


Of course. Do you take me for a fool? Why would I think people knew what was going through my head? It still doesn't change the fact that I'm insecure.

sarahstilettos wrote:
So the fact that you are only approaching attractive girls doesn't look to good to them? It makes you look like a shark, which is far from what you are, but most men a girl meets in a club who are only bothering to talk to the hot girls are looking for the most attractive person they can find to have a one night stand with that night. So seeing a man act in that way makes us really guarded.


Look, I've said "Nice outfit" to TWO people in that club, neither of whom are regulars. Didn't even try to say anything else, except "Forgive me if this is creepy or anything" in one of the cases. That's it. That's all I've been able to muster. If I have a reputation, it's probably "that guy who dances oddly and looks kinda dorky" rather than "that creep who hits on all the pretty girls."

sarahstilettos wrote:
I don't see how you can get around that without changing the way you act, and I'm afraid this will probably involve putting on a front a bit and trying to socialise with all kinds.


I do change the way I act to a certain extent, but you're asking a guy who hates parties to be the life of the party, the guy who only talks to a few people (if any) to talk to EVERYONE. That's a total personality shift! I'm not the cocky "I know everybody loves me so I'm going to force my personality on everyone and assume that they're not just being nice and tollerating me!"-esq Life of the Party sort of personality type, I'm the shy guy who expects most people to dislike him. There's a difference between changing the way you act and becoming a completely different person. Besides, if clubs aren't the way to go and I'm not going to meet anyone there then what's the point anyway?



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19 Dec 2007, 5:40 pm

Well, if you don't feel like you can socialise in clubs don't go to them? Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh but its hard to see what you'll get out of them if you can't bear to speak to anyone - apart from tinnitus and a vastly reduced bank balance.



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19 Dec 2007, 5:49 pm

sarahstilettos wrote:
Well, if you don't feel like you can socialise in clubs don't go to them? Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh but its hard to see what you'll get out of them if you can't bear to speak to anyone - apart from tinnitus and a vastly reduced bank balance.


Actually the place I go to is very cheap ($3 to get in) and not nearly as loud as some places.

Anyway, if I don't even try to speak to people at clubs than what else can I do? How can I meet someone?

The other thing is, I don't really know if we can judge all the women who go to clubs. Just in the same way I'm not a typical club-going guy, I'm sure there are atypical club-going girls, too, especially since it's one of the few places where one can see other goths. It's almost worth going just to be reminded that I'm not the only one in the area.



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19 Dec 2007, 6:10 pm

Gigs?
I think if you want to make friends through music it helps to do something, like start a band, write reviews, run a label, manage bands, promote gigs, blah blah blah... these things lead to meeting people with similar interests in a much less scary way.



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19 Dec 2007, 6:40 pm

sarahstilettos wrote:
Gigs?
I think if you want to make friends through music it helps to do something, like start a band, write reviews, run a label, manage bands, promote gigs, blah blah blah... these things lead to meeting people with similar interests in a much less scary way.


That's again asking me to be a completely different person. I lack musical talent and have no interest in business or marketing. I'm a writer, not a musician. Besides, I highly doubt I'd be able to form a band considering that that would entail finding people who liked the same music I liked, which is difficult enough to do even on its own because most people here don't really share my taste.