Do aspie girls fit into society better then the guys?

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Kitsy
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01 Jan 2008, 7:02 am

Can't say I've had an easy time fitting into society at all. Better than an aspie male? Not sure. I think males have an easier time with some areas but females have an easier time with other areas.

It's all about the social rules. They differ for both genders. If you disobey the rules, you will be treated accordingly.

Life will be harder on you. Some people have no problems just being themselves but the conformicons must have everyone abide by their rules only. The ending results that are the same do not matter if you do not go through the procedures that the person wanted you to do especially if you are an outsider.


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angelgirl1224
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01 Jan 2008, 6:18 pm

okay cut it with the crap. you dont know what your talking about.
i think its the same for both genders really,
look just thinkk about what your saying



KristaMeth
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01 Jan 2008, 6:57 pm

ProtossX wrote:
Are they able to live and fit into the american dream easier as well?

Guys in school are picked on the worst and most extreme cases, if you don't fit in your made fun of, beat up and in some extreme cases other stuff.

Girls really not a whole lot of making fun of happens to them, less fights occur especailly physically in school

Guys trying to get date's need to be very social and comfortable in asking a girl out with initiative

Girls just really don't need a whole lot of initiative or social cues to get on dates even with NT's

Guys instincts need to be leaders and try to fix problems which doesn't really help someone with AS

Girls instincts like compassionan helps them make up for there AS an make friends and relationships easier

Guys usually got to get a job with other people and mesh with society better to get anywhere in life

Girls can usually just marry some guy and raise the kids and be at home with the family.

So yeah basically this means that girls really don't have it as hard with AS since society is more kind to them and easier for them to mix in with NT's.

This also may explain why less 5:1 less females are diagnosed as aspies then guys, which may mean there really was a balance the whole time just less females with the problems being big enough an issue for gettin a diagnosis

What do you guys think is there a difference, is it small or big? Or is it pretty much an equivelent difficulty?


I'm not really about being politically correct, but I still feel like I should say that most of those statements seemed a little overly stereotypical.

As for things like jobs, I've had just as much trouble as the next person with AS. School, believe me, I've been in several physical fights. Before I learned how to fight back I'd been shoved around and even slapped one time.

And as for "Girls can usually just marry some guy and raise the kids and be at home with the family."... that's bull****. Though it may be "easier" for a woman to live like that, let's face it... women these days have goals and ambition, and it can be equally frustrating to be stuck at home picking your dirty socks up off the floor and popping out your kids when we really want to be OUT working. Said woman may feel like she can't though, because of AS issues and men being all "hey just stay at home". I'd say work situations are equally stressful for either gender, they just may be in different ways. For the record, being a home maker as your "job" can be just as frustrating with something like sensory overload plus screaming children AND Sesame Street on TV all day. Not exactly smooth sailing. I look forward to work after all that crap.

One thing I have noticed though is that it is very easy for me to associate with a guy in a flirtatious manner. They usually just see me as "shy" and to them it's "cute". I've always said thank God I'm not a guy, 'cause I'd be obligated to use the more aggresive means of picking up a partner. Guys are expected to be blunt, forward, the ones to make the first move. I could never do that, so thank God I'm a woman.


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lupin
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01 Jan 2008, 7:04 pm

angelgirl1224 wrote:
okay cut it with the crap. you dont know what your talking about.
i think its the same for both genders really,
look just thinkk about what your saying



Gosh, angel, that's rather a strong response to kitsy. I am sure that words like 'crap' are not necessary either.

It's never a good idea to tell someone that they don't know what they're talking about - it tends to alienate people. You appear to be making a personal attack rather than engaging in a fascinating debate with reasoned argument and courteous words.



hhyyjj163
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01 Jan 2008, 9:53 pm

yes
because girls has two x gene and guys has only one


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Kitsy
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01 Jan 2008, 10:01 pm

lupin wrote:
angelgirl1224 wrote:
okay cut it with the crap. you dont know what your talking about.
i think its the same for both genders really,
look just thinkk about what your saying



Gosh, angel, that's rather a strong response to kitsy. I am sure that words like 'crap' are not necessary either.

It's never a good idea to tell someone that they don't know what they're talking about - it tends to alienate people. You appear to be making a personal attack rather than engaging in a fascinating debate with reasoned argument and courteous words.


Was angel really talking to me? I took it as the OP angel was referring to.


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skrimpy
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01 Jan 2008, 10:40 pm

Let me get a shot in at this:

ProtossX wrote:
Are they able to live and fit into the american dream easier as well?


I'm going to give a huge "NO" to this. First - you can't really define what the "american dream" is anymore. Second, it's incredibly hard to get what you want in life and even harder when you feel like you don't understand the society you live in and the people who are around you. I am a female and this is 100% true for me.

Quote:
Guys in school are picked on the worst and most extreme cases, if you don't fit in your made fun of, beat up and in some extreme cases other stuff.

Girls really not a whole lot of making fun of happens to them, less fights occur especailly physically in school


You are so sadly mistaken. Girls get picked on and made fun of in harsh, extreme, and emotionally damaging ways. I was picked on ceaselessly by girls and by boys all through school. Even in elementary school. My middle and high school years were years of a lot of pain, a lot of anger, and years I would never EVER want to repeat. This is thanks to my peers, and also to the teachers who decided to belittle me because I was different.

Quote:
Guys trying to get date's need to be very social and comfortable in asking a girl out with initiative

Girls just really don't need a whole lot of initiative or social cues to get on dates even with NT's


um. Except us "weird girls" don't seem to attract guys. How many boys did I have a crush on who never looked at me, or thought of me as a little "freak" or "weirdo?" Or best of all too hyper - making too many funny movements (i'm a rocker)

Quote:
Guys instincts need to be leaders and try to fix problems which doesn't really help someone with AS

Girls instincts like compassionan helps them make up for there AS an make friends and relationships easier


I think guys do have an instinct to be leader and in that you're probably right. But girls having compaission? Let me be amusing here and ask "what planet are you from??" When I was a little girl, girls liked to mother, But then they got past the 2nd grade and that all stopped. It was all competition and cliques. And I. just. didn't. fit. in. Even now as an adult I don't have many friends. I have two female friends, outside of my mom.

Quote:
Guys usually got to get a job with other people and mesh with society better to get anywhere in life

Girls can usually just marry some guy and raise the kids and be at home with the family.


Wow! Listen to this!! !! Ok. Let me start off by saying that I *do* stay home with my kids and I am so freaking thankful for that. But "just marry some guy?" What are you thinking???? Yeah, I tried marrying "some guy" and having kids and I ended up left behind with three kids to take care of.

I am amazingly lucky that I found a man who not only loves me, but is man enough to take care of some other guy's children. I'm amazingly lucky that I *get* to be home while he goes to work. He's an Aspie too, and has been working at the same place for almost 16 years. He's had success in his career even as an Aspie and even working with people.

Being "at home" I also have to interact with people. I have to go to the post office, the grocery store, etc. I have to make phone calls to take care of household issues. I have to interact with doctors, dentists, babysitters, etc. etc. etc. for my children. I have to plan meals, clean the house, and manage an entire household. That is NOT easy!

Did I mention I love computer? I love Linux and I love web development. They're part of my "obsessive interests." And I design websites. For clients. That I have to interact with. And I'm a girl. An Aspie. And it's not easy.

Quote:
So yeah basically this means that girls really don't have it as hard with AS since society is more kind to them and easier for them to mix in with NT's.


What it sounds like to me is that you really want to whine about how hard it is for you as an Aspie guy and instead of working on it you're just going to slam Aspie girls as having it "easier." I'm sorry buddy, but that's not the case. There are aspects of it that are hard for everyone.

I do think females have some advantages in that shyness is more accepted. Sometimes girls are also given more social instruction, though that is becoming an art of the past (my mom thought girls should learn social skills though, so I was lucky to be taught them step by step).

But really, women have it just as hard as you men. We have to stand up, look at our strengths and our weaknesses, and figure out how to deal with them. We have to put up with the same ridicule you do.

I suggest you take a serious look at your misconceptions then work on figuring out your own issues, not belittling those of females.



lupin
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01 Jan 2008, 10:49 pm

Kitsy wrote:
lupin wrote:
angelgirl1224 wrote:
okay cut it with the crap. you dont know what your talking about.
i think its the same for both genders really,
look just thinkk about what your saying



Gosh, angel, that's rather a strong response to kitsy. I am sure that words like 'crap' are not necessary either.

It's never a good idea to tell someone that they don't know what they're talking about - it tends to alienate people. You appear to be making a personal attack rather than engaging in a fascinating debate with reasoned argument and courteous words.


Was angel really talking to me? I took it as the OP angel was referring to.


Eeee - I don't know, now that you point it out!

Whatever, it was rather full-on aggressive as I read it.



Kitsy
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01 Jan 2008, 10:58 pm

lupin wrote:
Kitsy wrote:
lupin wrote:
angelgirl1224 wrote:
okay cut it with the crap. you dont know what your talking about.
i think its the same for both genders really,
look just thinkk about what your saying



Gosh, angel, that's rather a strong response to kitsy. I am sure that words like 'crap' are not necessary either.

It's never a good idea to tell someone that they don't know what they're talking about - it tends to alienate people. You appear to be making a personal attack rather than engaging in a fascinating debate with reasoned argument and courteous words.


Was angel really talking to me? I took it as the OP angel was referring to.


Eeee - I don't know, now that you point it out!

Whatever, it was rather full-on aggressive as I read it.


No worries :)


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02 Jan 2008, 3:42 am

I think Aspergers is easier on women because of it. If a woman gets real emotional, bam the guy can just think "Women, that's how they are with their emotions because of their hormones."


I heard being over 30 and still a virgin is bad for a guy and they get shunned for it. My boyfriend always lies on the internet by saying he isn't one whenever he gets asked if he is still one. Luckily they don't say anymore because if they did, he would have been screwed. They could ask him what kind of sex does he prefer, how does he do it, etc. and how would he describe the feeling and emotion if he has never done it. Sex is hard for everyone to describe and discuss if they have never tried it, it's hard for everyone to describe how it feels despite if they have had it before. But for a woman, it's acceptable but for a guy, it's not.


It's also acceptable for women to cry but not men, that's why you don't see many of them crying. I used to think men don't cry but boys do. I have never seen my dad cry because he was raised that way as a kid but my mother has seen him cry.


Aspie women are more likely to get dates easier than aspie men, get accepted for their quirks, etc.

I had problems with meeting men in real life because my shyness would scare them off but online I met lot of men but what made it hard was living in Montana but moving to Portland made it a lot easier. That's how I met my new boyfriend. I knew living in Montana would keep me screwed over so I got out of there. Only way to meet a guy would be traveling to meet one which was hardly in my budget. I got far as Portland and decided I could try that distance traveling but had decided to move to Portland because of my last boyfriend I had met and plus I realized how much I had missed the city. It was also a good thing my aunt and uncle had moved here too or I probably would have ended up back in Montana because I would have no where to go if my boyfriend and I split up eventually. It would have happened anyway if my aunt and uncle didn't live here. I don't know if I would have last living with his parents because he had to stay with them for awhile.
I think I would have been even more depressed and have more sleeping troubles.

Or I might have just rented a room in someone's house. I had thought about doing that when I was living with my aunt and uncle.
I was about to do that till my current boyfriend wanted to move in with me to an apartment so we did apartment searching.



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02 Jan 2008, 11:24 am

ProtossX wrote:
Are they able to live and fit into the american dream easier as well?

Guys in school are picked on the worst and most extreme cases, if you don't fit in your made fun of, beat up and in some extreme cases other stuff.

Girls really not a whole lot of making fun of happens to them, less fights occur especailly physically in school


I wasn't picked on, but plenty of AS girls are picked on. In fact, I find I am quite abnormal in this. I doubt it had much to do with being a girl with AS as it probably had much more to do with the fact that I had five brothers who would have beat the crap out of those kids. The few times I was "picked on," and I'm not so sure it was even that, my older brother did beat up the kid in question. That was the end of it.

My experience in talking to women with AS is that they are generally picked on just as bad and many times for different things like not being feminine enough, not playing with dolls, not wearing makeup, etc. It just opens up a different realm of abusive behavior.


ProtossX wrote:
Guys trying to get date's need to be very social and comfortable in asking a girl out with initiative

Girls just really don't need a whole lot of initiative or social cues to get on dates even with NT's



This is unequivocally not true. I was a dating disaster because I picked up on absolutely nothing. If guys approached me, and they did, my reaction was to walk out. When my NT roommate and my NT friends tried to take that in hand, I walked out on 99.9% of my dates in the first five minutes because they led off with social chit chat so I assumed they were boring and stupid. I therefore felt I had nothing in common with them and it was a waste of my time. So, I left.

An old boyfriend, who managed to stay friends with me after the disaster of trying to date me, is the one who found my husband for me and he literally sat next to me (with me on the inside) for the first three dates so I would stay there. He said he found the perfect man for me and he did, however it still took a lot of doing on his part to make it work.

Once I actually dated my husband there were other and bigger problems which only his extremely analytical mind got us through. No normal NT guy could possibly date me or be with me. That isn't even in the scope of possibilities. Frankly, I wouldn't want it to be either.


ProtossX wrote:
Guys instincts need to be leaders and try to fix problems which doesn't really help someone with AS

Girls instincts like compassionan helps them make up for there AS an make friends and relationships easier



I wouldn't say this is unilaterally untrue, but I also wouldn't say that it is unilaterally true as implied here. I have all of your guy traits in this instance, although I won't try to fix the problem unless I am given the job, and none of the girl traits. I have absolutely no nuturing traits at all and I will get extremely short and irritated with anyone who seems the least bit needy. I'm not compassionate by nature and have to remember to try to mouth the words to appear to be that. I can't stand socializing and frankly I don't care what happens to the human race. Can I lead them? Certainly, if I have to do it I will, but it is not something I enjoy and eventually I will abdicate and go back to what I enjoy. Leading is far too social and takes too much energy that could be used to pursue the things I do enjoy. I'm not giving up my life for things I don't care about and don't enjoy.

In talking to AS women who did have children, most have problems because they can't socially network and don't handle the social requirements of dealing with teachers, other mothers, etc. well at all. Some of them have a great deal of difficulty having or being able to show compassion and act social enough for their children.

And just so you know, my lack of nurturing and compassion is much less socially acceptable than it would be if I was a male. I've had many issues over that.

That doesn't mean I'm the norm in the AS female world, but I do exist so you would need to consider the AS women like me in your theory.


ProtossX wrote:
Guys usually got to get a job with other people and mesh with society better to get anywhere in life

Girls can usually just marry some guy and raise the kids and be at home with the family.



I personally know very, very few women who have done that and haven't worked. So few that it's far more the exception than the rule. Considering 50% of marriages fail, it's a pretty short-sighted option on a woman's part because the possibility is just as high that she'll be on her own as it is that she won't.

In my case I never had any interest in children or marriage and the condition of my agreeing to marry at all was that children were a subject that could never even be discussed. I know lots of AS women without children (and not married) and lots with children who were married and now are either remarried or single. Very few who are still married.

As my husband says when people make such statements, "The days of June Cleever are long gone." (June Cleever being a 1950's television character who stayed at home, cleaned in high heels and a dress and took care of the children while her husband worked.)


ProtossX wrote:
So yeah basically this means that girls really don't have it as hard with AS since society is more kind to them and easier for them to mix in with NT's.

This also may explain why less 5:1 less females are diagnosed as aspies then guys, which may mean there really was a balance the whole time just less females with the problems being big enough an issue for gettin a diagnosis

What do you guys think is there a difference, is it small or big? Or is it pretty much an equivelent difficulty?



Here's what I think. I think that with girls it is much more likely to be seen as shyness, insecurity, lack of a strong maternal figure, etc. Society reads into us what they want. NT girls build social groups that try to "train" them how to act so they will make an effort to include any girl. If the AS girl can mimic well, she'll be taken in and trained by rote until she can pass somewhat. If she cannot copy them, she'll be ostracized very quickly and not let back in. Girl groups will not be associated with failures as it reflects on them as a whole. It isn't only AS girls who get weeded out either.

In the case of boys, society has certain expectations as well. Be tough, be a man, be able to fight, be able to play sports, etc. Since boys are taught to be a man and fight, when they do this during sensory overload it becomes an issue because you aren't fighting by the rules and it is seen as random agression instead. That's not acceptable. For girls, fighting is not acceptable ever and it's quickly reprimanded when it starts. If the AS girl learns that lesson and cries or cuts herself instead, unfortunately our society sees that as a much more acceptable way to deal with the same sensory overload and it is overlooked or attributed to other things (oh, poor thing, she must be depressed so we'll give her a pill).

I think in the case of AS, since diagnosis is based so heavily on what NTs can perceive of behavior and it was built based on males and their behavior, there is a tendency to misdiagnose females as something more socially acceptable for a girl. That's why you see the disparity. If they were actually diagnosing based on images of brain activity, while there might be differences, it would be much more consistent. In both cases however, you are only seeing a diagnosis based on what an NT decides are the rational, albeit NT, reasons for the behavior. That is random at best as the behavior could be caused by any number of things. Also, I have yet to see any NT correctly understand sensory overload and what that feels like to the AS person experiencing it. They interpret that from their own experiences which again is flawed at best. I'm not saying this is deliberate on their part, they are dealing with their own brains and how they work after all, but it is still flawed at best and leads to inconsistent results. Part of that inconsistency is how they view female behavior compared to male behavior. Frankly, they aren't really sure what is happening in the brain (and as a Psychiatrist/Psychologist that probably is never going to happen since that would be Neurology instead), so they aren't looking at objective data but instead on what they feel is the norm and that is not norm for AS but NT.

Until they correct the diagnostic problems that exist because you have NTs trying to interpret AS behavior and diagnose based on that, you aren't going to see much change in my opinion. The whole thing is flawed from a medical and science perspective.

I also don't see it changing as long as Psychiatry keeps its stranglehold on it because they can make money off pushing pills and therapy if they say you are depressed or they can talk you into wanting to "pass" in NT society, but there's no money to be made by saying your brain wiring is not like a NTs and that is just the way it is. (Unless of course plasticity theory holds in which case they will help infants and toddlers and ignore most everyone else.)


This is just my opinion based on what I've seen. It is only to offer you another view to contemplate.


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