Autism-Chronic Fatigue Syndrome connection

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anbuend
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09 Jan 2008, 12:41 am

Actually, there are tests to determine candida infections. At least some of them.

I had a biopsy done of white stuff in my esophagus that turned out to be candida. They can do the same thing for crotch infections of various sorts. And mouth infections. And skin infections. (Of course those, like most candida infections, are localized. And those are the sort I've had recently. Because of prednisone+antibiotics.)


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zendell
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09 Jan 2008, 12:49 am

lucy1 wrote:
I have had chronic fatigue / candida overgrowth. My daughter has had chronic fatigue. Recently my dad was sick and a blood test showed up candida overgrowth in his blood stream.
My son has a diagnosis of aspergers. I have traits but no diagnosis. My dad fits the diagnosis - but he is too old to worry about a getting an offical diagnosis.

I really doubt that it has much to do with mercury.


My dad has CFS and my aunt on my mother's side has fibromyalgia. I think there's a genetic component that makes people more susceptible. It may be genetics, and not mercury, that result in a dysfunctional immune system or an increased chance or getting CFS or yeast overgrowth. I mentioned mercury because some doctors find it high in 90% with CFS and there's evidence that mercury is one cause of immune dysfunction although there are other causes. My dad and aunt were both told they are high in heavy metals. I tested undetectable without a chelating agent and am waiting until I remove a mercury filling before getting retested with a chelating agent to pull the mercury out of the tissues.



zendell
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09 Jan 2008, 12:51 am

lucy1 wrote:
Antifungals didn't help me - I was allergic due to just about everything. The only thing that helped me was a rotation diet low in simple carbs and sugar.

Candida overgrowth makes you physically sick, over tired and it can cause allergies. It creates symptoms of chronic fatigue. It can cause indigestion and cause allergies to develop as it overgrows and breaks down the mucusal lining of the digestive system.


http://www.creativewellnesscenter.com/candida.html


I think Diflucan and Nystatin are the only prescription anti-fungals that work for Candida and some yeast are resistant to Nystatin.



zendell
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09 Jan 2008, 12:55 am

anbuend wrote:
Actually, there are tests to determine candida infections. At least some of them.

I had a biopsy done of white stuff in my esophagus that turned out to be candida. They can do the same thing for crotch infections of various sorts. And mouth infections. And skin infections. (Of course those, like most candida infections, are localized. And those are the sort I've had recently. Because of prednisone+antibiotics.)


I didn't mention them because most doctors will test for it when they see signs of a localized infection. I was referring to hidden yeast infections that alternative doctors treat. I got worse after antibiotics and my doctor refused to consider Candida. I had a nail fungus so I got an anti-fungal anyway.



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09 Jan 2008, 1:42 am

zendell wrote:
Here are some of the other features that have been reported in the past to be found in autism, which are also found in CFS:

* Oxidative stress
* Toxicity and sensitivity to toxins, especially mercury
* Gastrointestinal problems, including dysbiosis, leaky gut, and problems with casein and gluten.
* Coagulation problems
* Sleep disorders
* HPA axis dysfunction
* Abnormalities in sulfur metabolism


Do you know what they mean by "coagulation problems''?
Does it mean your blood takes too long to clot? I have that problem with my blood and I cannot take anything that causes it to get more runny like aspirin or even garlic supplements and vitamin E too.


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lucy1
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09 Jan 2008, 4:04 am

zendell wrote:

I think Diflucan and Nystatin are the only prescription anti-fungals that work for Candida and some yeast are resistant to Nystatin.


I was prescribed Nystatin and myconazole/ketoconazole (I think) both worked while I was on them - but as soon as stopped taking the antifungals - the yeast overpopulated again. Antifungals are quite hard on the liver - not the kind of meds. you want to be on for any stretch of time.
Nystatin - I ended up reacting to this medication - I became very allergic to it - due to the the breakdown of my digestive system lining.

Zendall - you are right - it is genetic and to do with the immune system. We have asthma (my daughter has hayfever) another genetic link to do with the immune system.



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09 Jan 2008, 7:46 am

zendell wrote:
I wrote this in response to another post asking about an ASD-FM connection (CFS is similar)
WARNING - ANTI-CURE & CLOSE-MINDED PEOPLE MAY BE OFFENDED. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.


It's the mercury zealots who mistake anti-quackery for anti-cure. What is offending is the insidious stupidity with which you folk keep coming up with the chelation idiocy.

gbollard wrote:
First of all, congratulations on the header/disclaimer. Hopefully the discussion will be about the issue rather than silly arguments.


Well, if he really wanted a discussion he would have chosen another heading



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09 Jan 2008, 9:03 am

My mother has CFIDS and is an Aspie; I don't have CFIDS, but do have a really sucky immune system. I can definitely see the connection.


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zendell
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09 Jan 2008, 2:03 pm

Zwerfbeertje wrote:
gbollard wrote:
First of all, congratulations on the header/disclaimer. Hopefully the discussion will be about the issue rather than silly arguments.


Well, if he really wanted a discussion he would have chosen another heading


Some people believe having an ASD is who they are and get offended when anyone mentions that something non-genetic may contribute to the way they are. A few people mentioned I should post a warning. Sorry if it bothered you but I can't make everyone happy.



zendell
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09 Jan 2008, 2:16 pm

thyme wrote:
Do you know what they mean by "coagulation problems''?
Does it mean your blood takes too long to clot? I have that problem with my blood and I cannot take anything that causes it to get more runny like aspirin or even garlic supplements and vitamin E too.


Yes. The blood takes longer to clot. If it's bad enough, you will notice it and may also notice your blood looks darker or thicker than normal.

It's referring to a type of hypercoagulation disorder found in CFS and autism. It isn't the same as thrombophilia that most doctors are familiar with. David Berg, director of Hemex Laboratories (a lab that specializes in coagulation disorders), created a test called an Immune System Activation of Coagulation panel (ISAC) to test for this type of hypercoagulation. Studies have found it in 79-92% with CFS/FM and 100% with ASDs (based on one small study - 10 out of 10 tested positive).

3 possible causes of hypercoagulation:
* Predispositional genetic defect (protein C, protein S, Factor V, prothrombin gene mutation, PAI-1, Lp(a), or elevated homocysteine)
* Viruses, bacteria and/or parasites
* Chemical exposure

Berg recommends treating it with low dose heparin. Some people have dramatic improvements in fatigue and pain with it. However, heparin has serious risks including bleeding into the brain and death. A safer alternative is Pentoxifylline. One study, unrelated to hypercoagulation, found Pentoxifylline helpful in treating autism.

Quote:
Pentoxifylline was given to a child with autism in Japan to treat suspected brain damage from an accident. After this treatment, the boy showed marked improvement of his autistic symptoms. When 23 children with autism were treated with pentoxifylline (150-600 mg/day), the drug was reported to be remarkably effective in 10 of the children with some of the group no longer considered to be autistic. The drug was also very effective in treating seizures.

http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/book/bk7sect2.html


Some OTC treatments that may work are bromelain, Nattokinase, and Lumbrokinase. Fish oil, vitamin E, and garlic help improve circulation.

Here's a summary of a study linking hypercoagulation to ASDs and CFS:
ASDs - hypercoagulation found in 100% (10 out of 10)
Family members (parents?) of ASDs - hypercoagulation found in 94% (15 out of 16)
11 of 16 family members (69%) reported symptoms consistent with CFS/Fibromyalgia

Quote:
Autism Spectrum Disorders and the Occurrences of Familial Thrombophilia Disorders

An Early Report © Presented at the September 2000 DAN! Meeting, San Diego, California J.J. Bradstreet*, J.J. Katrzinel*, D. Berg, Jt. El-Dahr# *The International Child Development Resource Center, Palm Bay, Florida, 321-953-0278 tHemex Loaboratories, Pheonix, Arizona , #Tulane University Medical Center

Recently, growing evidence points to dysregulation of the immune system in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Various vaccines, viruses, pathogens, immune deficiencies, toxins and autoantibodies have been put forward as playing a role in the development of autism related symptoms. Additionally, a familial or genetic tendency has been observed in this condition... Because thrombophilia disorders are also associated with immunological disorders, inflammatory bowel diseases, chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia, and central nervous system conditions including multiple sclerosis and cerebral palsy, it is reasonable to investigate a potential for thrombophilia in ASD. To determine this, nine families representing 10 children with ASD and 16 additional family members (15 parents and 1 sibling), selected at random from an ASD population were tested for coagulation disturbances. An Immune System Activation of Coagulation panel (ISAC) consisting of four tests including: Fibrinogen, Soluble Fibrin Monomer, Thrombin/AntiThrombin Complexes, and Platelet Activation by flow cytometry were measured on all children and available family members. In the children with ASD seven of 10 were positive for at least one marker of thrombophilia (ISAC), while 15 of 16 family members were positive for ISAC. The families were further studied by an Hereditary Thrombosis Risk Panel (HTRP) consisting of AntiThrombin Activity, Protein C level, Protein S level, APC Resistance, Factor II Activity, Lp(a) levels, PAI-1 Activity and Homocysteine levels. In the children with ASD, six of 10 had abnormal findings in the HTRP and 11 of 16 family members showed abnormal activated coagulation factors. By combining ISAC with HTRP, 10 of 10 children with ASD were at risk for thrombophilia disorders and 15 of 16 family members were as well. Eleven of the family members reported symptoms consistent with CFS/Fibromyalgia. This represents a previously unreported high prevalence of familial thrombophilia where at least one member has ASD. The data provide further evidence of immune activation in ASD, which deserves additional study to determine the potential pathophysiological role of thrombophilia in the generation of autism related symptoms. Simultaneously, family members deserve careful evaluation for their own thrombophilia-associated conditions.


Links to more info about hypercoagulation:
Easy to read info about it - http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C546009.html
From David Berg - http://home.att.net/~vetcenter/berg.htm
Hypercoag & CFS - http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/diffdx/hypercoagulation.html



zendell
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22 Jan 2008, 12:10 pm

From the Center for Complex Infectious Diseases:

Quote:
It has now been scientifically proven that stealth viruses do, indeed, exist and can be at the root of many multi-system neuro-degenrative illnesses, such as chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, attention deficit disorder, autism and other diseases causing behavorial changes.

http://www.ccid.org/



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22 Jan 2008, 12:14 pm

Quotes on an autism-CFS connection:

Quote:
Q. A representative of the Great Plains Laboratory asked Dr. De Meirleir to comment on the
fact that they are seeing some similar markers in autism and CFS, FM and multiple sclerosis.

Dr. De Meirleir – Mothers with CFS have 3-4 times perhaps even 10 times more chance of having autistic children. He’s collecting data on this now.

Dr. Hanna closed the session by imploring CFS researchers to be creative in looking for funding
right now. She noted that there’s a lot of money going into autism research right now and
creative CFS researchers could tap into it
.


In summary, similar biomedical abnormalities between autism and CFS. Mothers with CFS much more likely to have autistic children. One person even suggests using autism research funds to study CFS.

From http://www.wicfs-me.org/Pdf%20Files/IAC ... %20LHW.pdf bottom of page 5



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22 Jan 2008, 11:33 pm

Autism and CFS may be part of the same spectrum according to the paper "Neuro-Immune Gastrointestinal Dysfunction Syndrome: A New Descriptor for Autism and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? A spectrum of disease" available at http://www.ahmf.org/01cosford.html



matt
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22 Jan 2008, 11:47 pm

WurdBendur wrote:
Hmm, I have doxycycline that I don't really take too often anymore.

Also, I forgot to mention in my previous post, as for susceptibility infections: I have an infected toe. I don't know what it is, except that it's bacterial. It has been infected for more than two years. Antibiotics helped but never quite got rid of it. A year later, a pediatrist trimmed the edge of the nail - he didn't do anything to kill the matrix as is usually done with ingrown nails - and told me that taking the pressure off should take care of it. It was almost completely gone within a month, but never went away entirely. In the end, I've given up fighting with it. I can still walk without any problems, and it doesn't hurt at all. It's just perpetually swollen, but only a little.

I don't know if this is related. I just thought it was weird that I would have such a hard time with what seems to be a simple bacterial infection. As far as I know, I got it after I walked into a door (my toe wedged underneath it - ouch) because I was in one of my hazy periods when I ache too much to do hardly anything, all I want to do is sleep and I can't focus on anything. I noticed the infection early and cleaned it up the best I could. But then I went to sleep, assuring myself I would do something about it as soon as I got home.
I've had this problem a few times in the past. I've found it fairly-simple to treat.

Using a small set of cosmetic scissors, I cut the edge of the toenail, and used needle-nose pliers to pull out the hangnail. Then I poured hydrogen peroxide on the infected toe every day before putting shoes on on and after taking them off. That got rid of the infection within a week.



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23 Jan 2008, 12:35 am

(I take it "closed-minded" just means "doesn't agree with you"?)

At any rate, I do think there might be a connection, but not necessarily what people think. Autoimmune diseases in general are more common in certain segments of the population. Women, for instance, have a far higher rate, without femaleness being caused by one. Anyone who is under a great deal of stress also experiences more of them. Autistic people tend to be really stressed out. Therefore...


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zendell
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23 Jan 2008, 12:45 am

anbuend wrote:
(I take it "closed-minded" just means "doesn't agree with you"?)

I posted an autism-Lyme connection before and a few people suggested I include a warning for those who aren't open to non-genetic causes. So close-minded = I believe autism is 100% genetic, I don't want to read about non-genetic causes (this includes CFS because it can't be genetic since it's recent and rising rapidly).

anbuend wrote:
At any rate, I do think there might be a connection, but not necessarily what people think. Autoimmune diseases in general are more common in certain segments of the population. Women, for instance, have a far higher rate, without femaleness being caused by one. Anyone who is under a great deal of stress also experiences more of them. Autistic people tend to be really stressed out. Therefore...


I think stress could result in more CFS in autistics because it suppresses them immune system which could result in chronic infections (likely cause of CFS). I think some of the autism genes found are common in autoimmune diseases.