Anybody had child go from neurotypical to AS during teens ?

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mics4macs
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16 Jan 2008, 2:42 pm

My teenage girl aged 16 had two long and severe operations on her nasal passage at age 16. Each lasted a few hours and were to create a nasal passage she was born without.
Previous to this, she had alternative interests eg. sci fi etc.
Afterwards, she became a typical Aspie. We do have other Asperger cousins in the family so I know we could be genetically pre disposed. But I am wondering was it the anaesthetic or the boring into her head that caused this to become a big issue in her life. Anybody else out there hear of such an event?
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ster
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16 Jan 2008, 2:46 pm

never heard of this...........



Tortuga
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16 Jan 2008, 3:42 pm

What has changed about her?



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16 Jan 2008, 4:13 pm

People's aspiness can vary throughout life.


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16 Jan 2008, 5:25 pm

I never heard that either, maybe she was more mild growing up and then all of a sudden, something triggered her aspieness to be more noticable?


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16 Jan 2008, 6:18 pm

Over time I have noticed myself getting a bit more distinct, more pronounced, easier for others to spot certain things I do, how I act. I have a theory on what part of that might be about. PTSD. It can exaggerate things about me that were a bit easier to handle before. I think of PTSD as a co morbid, it's like we come prewired for it, we can be set up for all kinds and trials and tribulations just being different to the world at large, misunderstood. With age more of it can heap up. Some of us may get it, others not, can be very dependant on many things. For simple purposes here, there are two kinds, each has it's own subdivisions... Complex PTSD - over time, no set off point..... PTSD - Moment in time of a big event. This is very over simplified. Not all professionals are hip to the complex type, it has been accepted for a good while now, but sadly it isn't well understood or spotted by those that should. My guess is AS was there, no one noticed it. Hell I went 56 years and didn't know. Over time things began to get noticed and have had a bunch of missed diagnoses, but nothing except...doesn't do well in school but should because he has a high IQ, when I was young. Look at it as a damn good blessing, you now stand a good chance at keeping the PTSD at a minimum and PTSD should be attended to, earlier rather then later. Isn't much undoing to it later, I just treat the symptoms that can be. Believe it or not, I go to the Vet's Admin Hospital and they should have known about this type and didn't, or at least those I see. You don't need to have been in combat and they still tried to find that moment in time, the big event and they found one, but it wasn't to me (it didn't help any, but it was calm in it's horror). I'm an Aspie and it might have freaked them but it didn't me...it got me over time. Do I think it was the operation? Not really, I see it as the trigger that set it off.

My thoughts on a maybe reason.


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mics4macs
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17 Jan 2008, 11:53 am

Hi, Thanks to all above for the response. I will be interested to hear other opinions. Postpaleo's responce does ring a bell.
In what way is she different.
1. She used not be argumentative. Now she is very much so. Prone totantrum like outbursts.
2. Her voice seems loud at all times.
3. She is very likely to take people literaly
4. She is all the time jigging her foot.
5. She is frequently stressed.
6. She is very poor on organization
7. She is afraid of new social situations.
8. This is just a sample of the differences.
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ster
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17 Jan 2008, 12:40 pm

it's possible that the stress & hormonal changes of just becoming a teenager could be bringing out more of her aspie qualities. ...meaning that aspergers was always there, just undxed. ..........i have heard of people who have had head injuries which result in becoming aspie, but nothing with nasal passages.
it's also possible that something traumatic has happened to her (PTSD), and she is being triggered by something within her environment.



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17 Jan 2008, 4:08 pm

PTSD link This might be a good place to start for looking at PTSD. It was put together by one of our members, Claradoon (thanks, again).
The following is from one of the links on the web page, it starts out from the one event thing...but notice it's the %^$#* (&$$#@ Vets Admin too. The other thing is, this stuff can start young and I mean really young, like little kid young. There is more to it that can be found and I put this up for others with kids here. One of the other members here on WP just was told she has it as well by a Doc, she's the same age as I am and yet anther small life's AHA!! moment.

I also think ster has a very good point as well.

This is from a Veterans Administration site. For most purposes here, think of this just building up over time. This stuff has triggers that can set them off, one of mine is helicopters. But I know it predates that, I have others and my reoccurring nightmare is always in a school setting and being lost. But the Vietnam Era just seemed to be my breaking point where things spiraled out of control in a very easily seen and destructive manner. It was suppose to be easy to see, nobody knew is all, me included. The Doc's in the military said, well maybe you're epileptic, gave me a mess of tests and didn't really know and just gave me lots of pills to keep me sedated. Could have been worse, the Captian could have granted my wish to go to Vietnam, I was one screwed up person, let me tell you.

I haven't given much thought about, as this puts it "survivors" of those with PTSD. I do think it is a horrible way to put it for those that come here, but wouldn't be a bit surprised if it caught on in certain circles. I do think it very well may have a valid point to it though for some settings. At least enough to look into it in further detail. Just fighting for your kids over the long haul and trying to get them an even break is pretty damn taxing and you don't have to look far through the posts here to see that.

Sorry about the length of this.
......................................................

Common Reactions After Trauma
Following a traumatic event, people typically describe feeling things like relief to be alive, followed by stress, fear, and anger. They also often find they are unable to stop thinking about what happened. Having stress reactions is what happens to most people and has nothing to do with personal weakness. Many will also exhibit high levels of arousal. For most, if the following symptoms occur, they will slowly decrease over time.

Remember that most trauma survivors (including veterans, children, disaster rescue or relief workers) experience common stress reactions. Understanding what is happening when you or someone you know reacts to a traumatic event will help you be less fearful and better able to handle things. These reactions may last for several days or even a few weeks and may include:

Feeling hopeless about the future & detached or unconcerned about others
Having trouble concentrating, indecisiveness
Jumpy & startle easily at sudden noise
On guard and constantly alert
Having disturbing dreams/memories or flashbacks
Work or school problems
You may also experience more physical reactions such as:

Stomach upset, trouble eating
Trouble sleeping & exhaustion
Pounding heart, rapid breathing, edginess
Severe headache if thinking of the event, sweating
Failure to engage in exercise, diet, safe sex, regular health care
Excess smoking, alcohol, drugs, food
Worsening of chronic medical problems
Or have more emotional troubles such as:

Feeling nervous, helpless, fearful, sad
Feeling shock, numb, unable to experience love or joy
Avoiding people, places, and things related to the event
Being irritable or outbursts of anger
Becoming easily upset or agitated
Self-blame or negative views of oneself or the world
Distrust of others, conflict, being over controlling
Withdrawal, feeling rejected or abandoned
Loss of intimacy or feeling detached
Use your personal support systems, family and friends, when you are ready to talk. Recovery is an ongoing gradual process. It doesn't happen through suddenly being "cured" and it doesn't mean that you will forget what happened. For most, fear, anxiety, remembering, efforts to avoid reminders, and arousal symptoms, if present, will gradually decrease over time. Most people will recover from trauma naturally. If your emotional reactions are getting in the way of your relationships, work, or other important activities you may want to talk to a counselor or your doctor. Good treatments are available.

Common problems that can occur
Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD): PTSD is a condition that can develop after someone has experienced a life-threatening situation. People with PTSD often can't stop thinking about what happened to them. They may try to avoid people and places that remind them of the trauma and may work hard to push thoughts of the event out of their head. Feeling numb is another common reaction. Finally, people find that they have trouble relaxing. They startle easily and are often on guard.

Depression: Depression involves feeling down or sad more days than not, and losing interest in activities that used to be enjoyable or fun. You may feel low in energy and be overly tired. People may feel hopelessness or despair, or feeling that things will never get better. Depression may be especially likely when a person experiences losses such as the death of close friends. This sometimes leads a depressed person to think about hurting or killing him or herself. Because of this, it is important to get help.

Self-blame, guilt and shame: Sometimes in trying to make sense of a traumatic event, people take too much responsibility for bad things that happened, for what they did or did not do, or for surviving when others didn't. Remember, we all tend to be our own worst critics and that guilt, shame and self-blame are usually unjustified.

Suicidal thoughts: Trauma and personal loss, can lead a depressed person to think about hurting or killing themselves. If you think someone you know may be feeling suicidal, you should directly ask them. You will NOT put the idea in their head. If they have a plan to hurt themselves and the means to do it, and cannot make a contract with you to stay safe, try to get them to a counselor or call 911 immediately. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ 1-800-273-TALK (8255)

Anger or aggressive behavior: Trauma can be connected with anger in many ways. After a trauma people often feel that the situation was unfair or unjust. They can't comprehend why the event has happened and why it has happened to them. These thoughts can result in intense anger. Although anger is a natural and healthy emotion, intense feelings of anger and aggressive behavior can cause relationship and job problems, and loss of friendships. If people become violent when angry, this can just make the situation worse as people can become injured and there may be legal consequences.

Alcohol/Drug abuse: Drinking or "self-medicating" with drugs is a common way many cope with upsetting events to numb themselves and to try to deal with the difficult thoughts, feelings, and memories related to the trauma. While this may offer a quick solution, it can actually lead to more problems. If someone close begins to lose control of drinking or drug use, it is important to assist them in getting appropriate care.

Recovery
Immediately following a trauma, almost everyone will find themselves unable to stop thinking about what happened. Many will also exhibit high levels of arousal. For most, fear, anxiety, remembering, efforts to avoid reminders, and arousal symptoms, if present, will gradually decrease over time. Use your personal support systems, family and friends, when you are ready to talk. Recovery is an ongoing gradual process. It doesn't happen through suddenly being "cured" and it doesn't mean that you will forget what happened. But, most people will recover from trauma naturally over time. If your emotional reactions are getting in the way of your relationships, work, or other important activities you may want to talk to a counselor or your doctor. Good treatments are available.
.................................

Me again. My offical is Bipolar, it's partly right, I think, hard to really know. The interesting thing about the med I'm on is it has been found to be effective for some PTSD. So I consider myself lucky to have stumbled into it. It hasn't fixed it but it has helped, at my age there is no fix. I did get my councilor, while I still had one, at the VA to see the over time PTSD as valid. One step at a time, the establishment is very slow in giving up their old ways. He is also on the out look for others that may have AS as well. They gave him a new job, he's in charge of those coming home from this war and we need more Vet's councilors in my area. Anyone looking for a job?


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jaydog
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21 Jan 2008, 2:48 am

Not really sure on this, but stress and serotonin is linked to PTSD and Autism I did a little article on my blog leading to some google books. you may want to take a look at the following google books. but it is interesting and could be the truth on what causes autism. i also agree with postpaleo

Google books on stress and serotonin and autism and PTSD


Stress and Serotonin

(serotonin and Autism)

(serotonin and PTSD)

stress and PTSD

serotonin and anxiety



postpaleo
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21 Jan 2008, 12:32 pm

Serotonin, interesting stuff. This is a really a side note. Be pleased to take this subject else where as it might be going off topic. (just drop me a PM if you do, I don't browse here as much as I used to) When I've been on the drugs that use the serotonin fix as their basis for working, I get the effect fast and I mean really fast. For most people it might take say a month, mine is within a week. It's been a while and a week might be a bit off, but not far off. My ex-councilor said they see it once in a while and to them that just mean it was needed. My first VA doc was confounded by this and wanted to do placebos, but the VA had none for the experiment. (I also think she was still saying ADHD at that time too. She was a good one, had an open mind) But I see this with other drugs as well and the dose can go less as well, with the minimum to be effective type deal. The ones I recall were more in lines with antidepressants, which have never really worked well for me. So many different ones and combos of them I can't remember anymore.

Interesting studies on adrenalin cementing things in place (trauma), like PTSD and perhaps at some point un-cementing them, to early to know yet.


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MsBehaviour
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22 Jan 2008, 5:02 pm

I can totally relate to your daughter and I doubt she was NT before. I had aspie like traits when I was younger but when puberty hit at eleven, they got really bad. Hormones still affect me terribly, and I get a lot more aspie around my period. Because I was such a perfect daughter before (very quiet and studious) my Mother thinks my personality changed because of the wrong friends or drugs which was rubbish as I didn't even smoke pot until after I had moved out and got my own flat. I only found out in my mid thirties that I'm an aspie and now it all makes perfect sense.

Going on the pill at 16 helped enormously and I didn't do it because I wanted to have sex with my boyfriend. Suddenly no more intense mind numbing pain and exhaustion once a month with wild mood swings. They came back when I stopped taking the pill after ten years and I once made an incredible mistake, when I had a hormone injection after I got married. I felt like I was going mad for 3 months and like I was back in my awful teens again. So hormones can be hell for aspie girls.

Go easy with her, as even NT teens struggle as their frontal lobes switch off for a few years as the brain develops to its full adult state. She may be freaking out about it more than you think as aspie girls are very good at hiding things from people they don't trust.


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26 Jan 2008, 10:17 pm

You can't "become" an Aspie. You're born that way, or you're not.

But-- Aspergean traits can vary and shift greatly in a life span. As a kid I acted almost NT in some ways (or so I think), but I hardly ever knew what was going on around me. As an adolescent, I was just a dork in a big way. As a teenager, my sensory issues seemed to disappear, then came back with a vengeance in my early 20's (now).