Page 16 of 17 [ 241 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17  Next

Strapples
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 19,455
Location: Chicago Area IL (FAR FROM AUTISM SPEAKS)

05 Feb 2008, 9:37 pm

No I do not "fear" a cure. I just dont DESIRE to be cured... end of story...


_________________
check out my website at http://www.alinssite.info and my forum at http://www.disabledplanet.alinssite.info

When in doubt, ask an autistic. Chances are, they're obsessed with what you need to know. :roll:

Autism Speaks will NEVER speak for me

CLASSIC AUTISM


NewportBeachDude
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

06 Feb 2008, 7:48 am

Zwerfbeertje wrote:
I am and will remain skeptical and critical of any claims of cures and treatment.


I'm cool with your post, but do have a question. Are you skeptical about claims of treatment coming from Asperger adults as well or only from parents seeking treatment for their Autistic children?

Fuzzy wrote:



Fuzzy, I think you're a bit too hasty on calling BS. None of these cases are in the United States of America where forced, court-ordered, blood transfusions are heavily avoided if possible. In the U.S., most adult Jehovah Witnesses sign a liability release, The American Medical Association Release, relieving medical staff and hospitals of any legal liability and criminal charges like Medical Malpractice or Negligence. But, cases have been brought regarding children when no such document was in place and the child's life is threatened. In these cases, the hospitals argue it is child abuse not to give blood in a life-threatening situation. They are rare. Today, hospitals in the U.S. really work with families to do bloodless procedures or find ways around this. You cannot automatically force a family to have a transfusion, like Joeker said, if they're Jehovah Witness.



Zwerfbeertje
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2007
Age: 119
Gender: Male
Posts: 362

06 Feb 2008, 9:54 am

NewportBeachDude wrote:
I'm cool with your post, but do have a question. Are you skeptical about claims of treatment coming from Asperger adults as well or only from parents seeking treatment for their Autistic children?


Both, I guess, and the level of skepticism increases with the grandeur of the claims.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 103,699
Location: Hanging out with my fellow Sweet Peas at Stalag 13

06 Feb 2008, 1:36 pm

I'm not a coward. I'm just doing what's sensible for me.


_________________
Schultz

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26&start=645


Odin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,498
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA

06 Feb 2008, 4:22 pm

anbuend wrote:
Indeed.

Characterizing contrary opinions as automatic evidence of a disorder of any kind has always struck me as intellectually dishonest.


Sadly, in times past people were thrown into mental institutions and put on brain-damaging anti-psychotic medications even though there was nothing wrong with them because of some Freudian "psychologist" telling the authorities that his patient's denials were evidence of that patient's non-existent mental illness.


_________________
My Blog: My Autistic Life


AspieDave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 568
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

06 Feb 2008, 8:31 pm

oy

the more I read the more I want to start my own self treatment regimen.... single malt scotch


_________________
I tried to get in touch with my feminine side.... but it got a restraining order.....


elan_i
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 84

06 Feb 2008, 8:52 pm

Odin wrote:
anbuend wrote:
Characterizing contrary opinions as automatic evidence of a disorder of any kind has always struck me as intellectually dishonest.


Sadly, in times past people were thrown into mental institutions and put on brain-damaging anti-psychotic medications even though there was nothing wrong with them because of some Freudian "psychologist" telling the authorities that his patient's denials were evidence of that patient's non-existent mental illness.


I addressed 'Anbuend's comment earlier, http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp1188648.html#1188648

An portion of my reply:

elan_i wrote:
'anbuend' you're criticism shows only a superficial and simplistic level of understand of my discussion, and as such a misunderstanding.

My discussion, and the focus of my original post and this thread, was to provide possible explanations for those who are anti-cure, and obviously as seen in my original post, many of these possible explanations are psychological explanations, that is, about factors that I believe may be underlying the anti-cure people's actual beliefs and statements. In addition to this, I provided some factors about science and medicine that are related to these possible psychological explanations.

One central aspect of these issues is that those with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) are the one's with the diagnosis of mental illness, and I discuss the anti-cure objections that many with ASD make in the context of themselves having this diagnosis, and in the context of how they conceive of themselves with this diagnosis. Many with ASD, usually well after receiving their diagnosis, may decide to object to the diagnosis as being a disorder or disease, and may reject any treatment recommendations, and may reject the goal of a cure for this non-disorder. In this thread this is what I discuss - the possible reasons why many do this - and one possible reason is, it seems, similar to what occurs when people are diagnosed with personality disorders: they reject the diagnosis, reject treatment, reject themselves being considered disordered, and often will counter-attack others for claiming to be more "normal" than they. This is the evolution of the process. Contrary to what 'anbund' believes, I'm clearly not arguing something like that "the anti-cure Aspies have another disorder (personality disorder) because they have views about autism and treatment and neurotypicals I don't agree with."



Joeker
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 9 Aug 2007
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 361
Location: The Interwebs

06 Feb 2008, 9:03 pm

Fuzzy wrote:


#1, the children would have died. It was determined that the parents did not have the right to disavow newborns of their right to life over their right to religion. The children were not in any way(being newborns) able to make any decisions about religion or their lives. They would have the right to choose to die for their religion when they are of an age to make their own decisons. Letting babies die is generally not an issue of their rights to deny treatment.

#2, let me quote you something. "The court agreed with provincial legislation that sets 16 as the age minors can be allowed to make their own health-care decisions." Allowing your child to die is in no way what people consider good parenting. May as well say that parents have the right to kill their children.

#3, "British Columbia’s supreme court then ruled on 11 April that the teenager’s constitutional right to choose medical treatment does not override the courts’ authority to protect her life and safety." It was a direct threat to her life. Cancer is not something you can just hope will go away. It will kill you if it is not treated, and parents do not have the right to let their children die, and goverments cannot simply watch children dying and let them die.

#4 was a case of doctors not informing their patient of the nature of the treatment, and again, the age of the child. It was a case where the patient was not informed. But should they have just let her die, bleeding out?

So people can forcibly be allowed to live, in matters of life or death. In all these cases, it was the right to life over the right to religion. Life over death. Children wanting to die early to make their parents happy. Parents letting newborns die. I might remind you, the only reason there's only four left out of six, is because they were given transfusions before any more died. If they'd gotten transfusions from the start, none of them would have died.

The way it's being argued in the manner it is here on WP, it's not a matter of life or death. It's whether or not we'll remain autistic or not. How many times have people here repeated that Autism isn't cancer, it's not a disease? The Jehovahs witnesses were treated because they weren't of an age to choose to die for their religious beliefs. Especially the children.

These were not first options, frced upon them no matter what, these were instances of either letting them die, or respecting their choice and letting the person they were responsible for keeping from dying, die. As doctors recite; "I shall do no harm."


_________________
1234
FOUR
Four is the only number which is itself has the same number of letters as it itself is.


aaronrey
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 297

06 Feb 2008, 9:27 pm

i support people choosing faith over medication, even if it means early death for them.



Joeker
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 9 Aug 2007
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 361
Location: The Interwebs

06 Feb 2008, 10:25 pm

NewportBeachDude, thank you, and I agree with where you're coming from. Self-advocates need to advocate for what they have, not with what they can say they they are linked to, but aren't really sharing the same difficulties and challenges they do. Aspies speaking out for autistics, especially when it comes to speaking over autistics, doesn't seem right.

I know autistics, diagnosed low functioning, who have voices. They ought to be heard. They should be able to say what they think, not be spoken for. Aspies speaking for Autistics is like NTs speaking for Aspies, if you know what I mean.

TLPG wrote:
No, they should not be seperated completely, Newport. If we do that, AS advocacy will fall over because it will be seen as close to enough to the NT's definition of "normal" and not bother with it. We need the proven link between ourselves and Autism (the Spectrum) to get the help that we may need. It has been proven that the general rule in getting Aspergers early will make things OK. But that's the key - get it early. If you don't, then there will be problems - certainly with coping with life without a DX to guide you (I can talk through experience there).

Besides - purely because we are on the Spectrum, we do share a lot of traits with Autistics, especially HFA.


Autistics and Aspies have entirely different issues, different wants, different needs, different symptoms, different challenges. Compared to severe Autism, Aspergers isn't nearly so bad off.

We need them, that is what you're saying. It's called using people.

Inventor, go invent a way to muzzle yourself. I don't need to hear these silly and baseless accusations from someone who has no idea what they're talking about. You're barking up the wrong tree, calling him a third party when he's the same as I, and you're not even actually diagnosed. You self-diagnosed yourself, and assume that you're the only person who's an Aspie. Because you really can't take a hint about being told that you're wrong about Elan(I've told you before), if you look at his profile, it will show you that he's a diagnosed Aspie. Not someone who's unsure if they've got it.

I think that Elan has been doing a great thing, and has clarified quite a lot. Just reading over his posts gives me a better understanding of the issues, like a cure, or the reactions that people of certain perspectives hve towards it, or even the idea of a cure. He's made some valuable contrbutions, and asked questions which needed, in my opinion, to be asked.

Riddick124 wrote:
Ok, the problem I see is that everyone is thinking as a whole group, not individually. The choice should be made my each person, and if there is ever a "cure" for us, then it will be indivual, yet many of you feel it is either everyone is "cured" or noone is.


Exactly, well said. I agree Riddick, you sure put that clearly.

Strapples, that's your choice, and I respect it.

CockneyRebel, you've got that choice. But does it have to be at the cost of the choices of others?

Aaronrey, I support that freedom of choice, though I don't neccesarily like it. Still, it is their right. Though children who can't even form the concept of religion, like the baby sextuplets, don't deserve to die for their parent's beliefs... It's not their life to let end, is it?


_________________
1234
FOUR
Four is the only number which is itself has the same number of letters as it itself is.


CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 103,699
Location: Hanging out with my fellow Sweet Peas at Stalag 13

07 Feb 2008, 9:28 am

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!


_________________
Schultz

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26&start=645


Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,532
Location: Alberta Canada

07 Feb 2008, 10:36 am

Joeker wrote:
These were not first options, frced upon them no matter what, these were instances of either letting them die, or respecting their choice and letting the person they were responsible for keeping from dying, die. As doctors recite; "I shall do no harm."


Correct. And actually I believe that those children should have been forced to endure blood transfusion. Its just that you brought it up as a parallel, and now you disown the connection between that and autism cure? That is a bit of flip flopping on your part.

Now.. i will take your last sentence...

Quote:
As doctors recite; "I shall do no harm."


And what of abortionists? They MUST have a PHD.

http://amyproctor.squarespace.com/blog/ ... child.html

http://www.zenit.org/article-15490?l=english
Quote:
Q: Why do you think it has become socially acceptable to abort a child with Down syndrome?

Schiltz: Because, unfortunately, it has become socially acceptable to abort any baby who disappoints the expectations of the baby's parents for any reason, as the increasingly common practice of sex-selection abortion indicates.


Particularly relevant is Parents suing doctors for "wrongful birth"
http://www.consciencelaws.org/Examining ... nic01.html
Quote:
Although Dr. Delahunty's insurance company will pay the $1.85 million while it appeals the case, he says he is "fed up." "For 40 years, I had a good rapport with my patients," he said. "But now I look at a woman and see a potential lawsuit." He left private practice three years ago and works as a hospital consultant, assisting pregnant women with HIV. He plans to recommend to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists that all prenatal diagnoses be assigned to hospitals' genetics departments rather than to OB/GYNs. This might keep other OB/GYNs from being sued by patients who have genetically flawed children.



http://4simpsons.wordpress.com/2007/07/ ... -syndrome/
Quote:
One woman who decided she would continue her pregnancy spoke of her doctor reminding her that she could still undergo a late term abortion


Any rebuttals?



militarybrat
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 348

07 Apr 2008, 5:23 pm

Sorry for the overly long delay. I had some technical difficulties which left me without a computer or limited computer access for a few weeks and then got backed up with this semester's work. Howvever, I am back and will have that repley posted soon.



The_Cucumber
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 665

07 Apr 2008, 6:27 pm

To be honest elan_i you should have realized your thread would be met with hostility, as WrongPlanet is considered a largely anti-cure website.

At my functioning levels, I would consider my syndrome as 80% if not more positive. The only real difficulty I experience is in what I consciously see as an injustice (such as group punishment), and a bit of social anxiety in certain situations. Otherwise I have the ability to deeply analyze situations. I have an affinity for computers that may soon yield a career in Cyber Security. I have a great imagination that may some day lead me to do some serious writing. I take all things logically and thereforth do not fear death (I see that in the end, fearing death has little purpose, it is sufficient to not hasten it if you want to get anything done before then). I see the flaws and problems in our society as clearly as I can see the computer screen right now.

If I lost my Asperger's Syndrome, It could destroy the person I am now. So while I understand, perhaps there is fear, it is the same NT's fear of becoming psychologically abnormal. Which is at least, if nothing else, a completely rational fear.


_________________
The improbable goal: Fear nothing, hate nothing, and let nothing anger you.


Apuleyo
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 199
Location: None

07 Apr 2008, 7:40 pm

I have skills that nobody else I know has. They are AS related. I wouldn't trade my abilities for nothing in the world as they make me happy by doing things I love.


_________________
I left this site and if any mods read this please delete my posts. Thank you.