For those who think AS/autism isn't a disability

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You know, it is funny... My visualization, and work memory in general, can imagine various symbols, creatures, concepts, logical patterns, and concepts. I can't generally read letters or numbers though. 8-( In fact, recently, I was surprised when I woke up realizing that I WAS reading a book.

Anyway, this means I can do LOTS of things, but things like multilevel calculations don't come so easy.

for me autism is a disability, i cant cope with stress at all, i meltdown rock like crazy, get suicidal hallucinate and eventually end up catatonic for a shortwhile.

i am extremly sensitive to light and movement , simply walking down a street with people causes me a great deal of anxiety, i feel so off balance , like im about to fall, i get exhausted and walk in fear of having to pass through a patch of sunlight wich triggers a vertigo and panic attack and which then causes a severe migraine which has many times landed me in hospital with suspected meningitus.

i am one of those people with an assistance dog that helps me , and she does help me the proof is in the fact that since working with her i havent been into hospital with a severe migraine and have started going outside again , the fear is still there and i dont go far but the difference now is that when i am out and sunlight hits i can close my eyes and she will guide me through that area so hence i am not triggered as i was before.

its reasuring to me that i am much less likely to end up collaspsing in the street and so far since working with her that hasnt happened.
this is just one aspect of my aspergers that i find very disabling . it seems to me that it varies so much from one person to the next, its obvious that not everyone is affected in ways that cause them to consider themselves disabled , however i think it aught to be common courtesy to not insult those who do find life too much as a result of there autism , not all of us are blessed with the amazing talents that outweigh the disabling parts of autism.

I don't think AS is a disability, but it is a difficulty, and for some it should be very tough to do a lot of stuff. I am not saying it is a disability because the things in question are not impossible to do, but they are just arbitrarily harder to do for Aspies than they are for NT guys. And some times, they are VERY hard.

I think ASDs are a disability because

being autistic takes away your opportunity to choose what our society offers. I'm not able to do all kinds of things, I'm disabled.

I don't think it's bad though. Disability isn't a life-long curse and the word itself is not a limitation or a insulat, but instead a term that explains that the person is limited to function in certain contexts.

It's not about things being hard to do. It's about opportunities being impossible to have. Today, there are more opportunities offered to do things, but it's not yet the end of everything.

It's great that people with limitations in some areas are offered the chance to pick a life in which they design everything in a way that enables them instead of disabling them. But it doesn't mean everyone wants to be like that and it also doesn't mean everybody got the same chance and the same talents to make a dream reality.

Do I want a extra job somewhere that cherishes my autistic 'abilities'? Nope, definitely not. I managed to pick the most NT job ever - musical actor. I'm perfectly aware how just about every NT who isn't even good at acting or singing is way more enabled to get the job and do it and have a stress-free time by it.


And really. Another point.

Just because many people are enabled doesn't mean other people with the exact same diagnosis don't need help.

They may need very much help indeed.

If you don't know it, can you imagine you're incapable of making people communicate with you, because nobody understands you? Give them PECs or a computer? Who teaches them to use it? Who has enough knowledge to do so? Parents? Not really.
Who can help with sever rigid routines that are so worse it prevents a person from doing everyday things - that even prevents a person from eating maybe (ever heard of it?)? The person probably has dreams too, you know. And they don't stop by getting a meal.
What if every touch, even a brush of skin causes pain? The type of pain that sets your mind on fire and renders you incapable. How can a person like this participate in the life outside his apartment? He probably doesn't want to be stuck alone in his own apartment until he'll die.


Every comparison to someone who has freely chosen, however driven by desire and sensation, something they do and is thus incapable to do other things is not in any way similar to how autism can disable a person. Autism is there and nobody gets a pick to be autistic. You're born with it and you'll die with it and not everyone is willing or able to agree that his autism makes him cool and differently abled.
There is after all a reason why in the mass of 6 billion people on the planet similarities between people outnumber the differences. Not everybody thinks its cool to be different. It doesn't mean they don't like themselves, it just means they want something else for themselves.

It would be like saying: oh, you don't have legs and arms? How can you ever want to move by yourself? You were born incapable to moving around in our world, you should just pick a life in which you don't ever need to move, because you're different and it makes you perfect for being stuck in one place forever. You would never need to stretch your arms and legs, isn't that cool?

Maybe it makes the person happy to do just that, but maybe the person wants to move around. How can I or anyone else than this person know it? It's not about better choices, it's about what people need and want and all of the basic choices we talk here are good.

Nothing better, nothing worse, just each according to his or her needs.

The problem is, with medical conditions it's either one for all or nothing for all. That's injustice, yes, I noticed. We all do and should, but it's not the grand idea to want the opposite of what is currently in place just to rebel out of personal experience.

Sounds like an NT thing to say: But there are other people just next to us that are certainly totally different from us and we can't expect them to be similar to us nor should we hope that they are.

I don't mind somebody saying his or her autism/down's/turner's/whatever doesn't disable them. It's the very best a person can say, because it means that the person has all the opportunities they long her. It means life is good.
But it's a different matter to say: autism/down's/turner's/whatever isn't a disability.

Maybe it's different for other countries, but...

In my country people aren't put up for disability just because of a diagnosis. It would be unreasonable to put everyone with a diagnosis (e.g. autism gets you 100%) up for 'disability'. Only the people that fill out extra papers and want/need the disability label get it. Easy.

Sora,

We ALL know that some types of autism are BAD, and disabling. HECK, EVEN if you were a native english speaker, one could EASILY tell by your speech that you are NOT LFA(Not as far as intelligence or communication anyway)! And you certainly covered a LOT of points. Also, comorbids you allude to can affect ANYONE!

And NOBODY can do everything. Before I knew about AS, I thought certain limitations were just due to my history and dumb luck.

Anyway, you probably have LOTS of options! Don't sell yourself short.

I'll go on the record to say that some maybe not all of my autistic capacities affect my ability to be in the work field but, if you add in brain damage resulting in permanent short term & long term memoru utilization than yes, I have some straightforwards limits however, I don't necessarily see myself as some idiot just a person whom has known strengths & weakness like all other people on this planet..

ProfessorX

That one depends on the person, and isn't actually an accurate account of what people without arms or legs can do.

From what I've seen, people who lack any or all limbs from prior to birth rarely miss them and have no body image in their brain other than the one they actually have. They can and do move around: Many can move across the floor using the rest of their body (not a skill most of us develop but for them it's something they've been doing since infancy), all can control wheelchairs through either head or other body movements. They are certainly not "stuck in one place forever" whether in or out of their wheelchairs, although they generally need help transferring to their wheelchairs. And most wheelchair users, contrary to the stereotype, view wheelchairs as a vehicle and a means of freedom rather than something we are trapped in. (I was nearly entirely housebound with a combination of pain, fatigue, and a movement disorder before I got mine, now I am far more mobile and active than I was without one.) Most such people reject artificial limbs as not only something they cannot use, but something that detracts from their ability to get things done the usual way.

On the other hand, amputees usually do have a sense of their body as having legs and arms, do better with artificial limbs than non-amputees lacking the same limbs, and may want those body parts back. (Although after awhile very few physically disabled people go through life wishing every day that we were non-disabled: Even when the condition is a pain in the butt, we usually have other priorities. I wouldn't mind having better stamina again (I used to be able to walk just about anywhere on any terrain without stopping, now I can't even walk a normal amount on flat ground without severe pain and exhaustion) but I'm not going to sit around mourning the loss of it, life's too short. I'm working on a cure for some of the chronic nerve pain I've got but if the cure doesn't pan out I'll have other options.)



I don't think that sounds NT at all. I don't think acknowledging that we live in a society, or a diverse society, is inherently a non-autistic trait, or an autistic one. It's just something that some people acknowledge and some people don't.



Here (USA) there are different things related to disability that can be handled differently.

For instance, the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is a non-discrimination act that is supposed to protect not only disabled people, but people who could easily be mistaken for disabled people, such as people with severe disfigurements that don't actually hamper their ability to function any differently than anyone else. It's not actually enforced, but that's what it's supposed to be. For that, there should not be a diagnosis required, but in practicality there often is (it's not interpreted properly by our courts usually -- ending up in convoluted things like "Well it's not discrimination on the basis of disability because you're not disabled anymore if you wear eyeglasses," even if the discrimination was because the person has the condition that requires them to wear eyeglasses).

And then there's various forms of disability income a person can get from the government. In those, you have to prove not only that you have a condition, but that the condition renders you unable to work. For me it was easy because I had a job history of not being able to do the job, even adapted jobs, enough to make money to live on or even close to it. They looked at that, verified my diagnoses with a few of my doctors, and I was able to get benefits. To them, "disabled" has a specific meaning that has to do with ability to work. However, that definition of "disabled" is not the same one as the ADA.

And then there's whole different sorts of things you have to do for educational assistance, which a person might or might not get by without. (I got by without part of my life and then got special ed a few years and then adapted versions of regular ed in college.)

There's also of course differences in definition where some people can say disability is a medical condition of the body, others say it is a moral condition, others say it is caused entirely by society planning for some and not others, some say it is by intersection of society and a person's physical makeup, etc. Not everyone even locates disability in the same place.

Personally I subscribe to the view that disability has at least as much to do with society as with the body's differences (even conditions that are inherently painful and upsetting... societies plan for certain levels of pain and upset to be taken care of in everyday life, and not others, so society still has some role). So of course autistic people are disabled, and of course left-handers were once disabled in the USA and are not usually anymore (or not usually too extremely).

I don't subscribe to the view that having the sort of body that is disabled is inherently and always negative, sometimes someone wants to change it and sometimes they don't of course, and fewer people would have a burning desire to change it if the discrimination and oppression on the basis of disability were not so bad.

I also don't like some of the replies I see on here that see disability as bad, and also see people pointing out what's difficult in their lives as being down on themselves or something. Sometimes some things are more difficult for some of us than others. That doesn't mean we're ashamed of it and it doesn't mean that the difficulties would all go away with a little bit of positive thinking. I think pretty positive and yet there are still things I can't do, that's just life.

dont call it a 'disablity' then. call it 'inability' or 'difference'

I agree with you in part. I don't think there are any AS "abilities" universal to all people on the spectrum. I also don't think that (except perhaps for memory/splinter skills) there are any special AS skills that no NT person has. OTOH, neurological conditions are sort of a complete package for me. You can't separate out different abilities and disabilities easily--it all goes together. AS has been medically defined in terms of disabilities, but that doesn't mean it might not also include abilities for some people. It's a very individual thing. I consider that my writing ability is partially because of AS, but I certainly don't think that one must have AS to be a good writer. I just think that for me personally, that ability is part of the overall picture.

You're right to say that left-handers aren't generally disabled. (They are actually greatly overrepresented in baseball, for instance.) But, left-handedness was more of a disability in the past, when it wasn't that accepted and tools such as left-handed scissors didn't exist. There were some teachers who made all students write with their right hands--I guess you could compare that to people trying to force aspies to appear utterly NT. And left-handedness can still be dangerous at times--for instance, in handling certain power tools designed for right-handers. So it can be a disability. It depends on the context, like everything.

Why?

Yes, thank you. Really, some people are just good at some thing and some are not. Everyone has different talents, and AS has nothing to do with talent in one area either. There are plenty of Aspies here who suck at math, science, technology, etc... including myself. There are NTs who are excellent at things that are generally considered "AS talents" - most annoying of all are the Aspies who think their AS makes them better at one thing or another.

I believe that those with Asperger's aren't better at anything solely because of their AS, but because they are worse at socializing (due to AS), they tend to be drawn to non-social activities.

I have to agree there I also see it as a different, not defective, way of thinking... so its about time others stop trying to change them and educate society that there is in fact a whole group of people who are just different...

I feel I have an invisible difference, it only becomes a disability when others foul to understand my differences!

My brother has been good at math since 3rd grade. It was too easy for him he couldn't get challenged. My parents couldn't enroll him in a program for gifted kids who have above grade level math or reading.

When we moved to Montana. He finally got challenged. He was doing math above one grade level. He was doing 5th grade math instead of 4th grade. he was doing 6th grade math when he reached 5th grade. He was doing high school math in junior high and did advanced math when he got to high school and he even did chemestry. My other brother had to drop out of that course because it was too abstract for him. He couldn't do it. You have to be extremely an abstract thinker to be able to do very hard math like chemestry and very hard algebra. My brother is pretty gifted in math and his reading level was above grade level too.


When I was in second grade, there were kids in my class who excelled in math. They write the answers to them under the problems without doing the adding while I used my fingers. Did they have AS? No. There were even kids in my school who go to another school where they got challenged and none of them had AS.

When I was in 3rd grade I did double digit times tables. I learned it in special ed while in regular ed it was double digit times single digits and single digits times single digits. When I was in 4th grade I was the only one who got all of the times tables right on the math quiz test when everyone was learning times tables up to 10 times 10. Was it because of my AS? No. It was because my mother had me memorize the times tables and then in special ed, my teacher introduced me to the new times tables with double digits times double digits and shows me how to do the problems and I learned how just like that. I learned division quick too the day everyone in 4th grade was introduced to the problems. My school was slow in teaching students math. 4th graders didn't learn division till March in the school year and then they learn fractions in 5th grade in March and there was no algebra in my school but when we moved to Montana, there was already algebra and the special ed teachers in the school decided to drop it for me because I wasn't getting it and they gave me concrete math problems. Perhaps I missed a huge step between algebra and they didn't go back that far to teach me what other kids have already learned in late elementary school.

We were just starting square roots at the end of my sixth grade year and then we move to Montana and bam their square roots were a lot harder while back in my home town we had pre square roots like 144, or 7, or 9, or 25 and in my new home town they had like 4 digit numbers and some of it was mixed with algebra.

One thing on "special" talents and autism; our cognitive pattern is more splintered when placed next to "normal" people, i.e., one person with AS may be very good at math, but will suck at English; the opposite holds just as true.

So in reality, one can be worst at math if they have AS, or they could be extremely good at it due to AS--there's nothing stopping "normal" people from being equally as good (apart from the human calculators).

I'm deemed as "unfit" to work by a government psychologist which is directly related to my AS/AD (which of note, she became a psychologist to help her daughter with AS, she said it didn't help). The government here will find anyone a job that earns at a minimum, twice as much as the disability pension; I'd rather be working than curling my hand up against my chest, popping sedatives, being misunderstood by everyone for I cannot speak above a mumble, and working my literal life away trying to "fix" myself so I can work. People who say I don't have a disability [due to AS/AD] can come and live with me for a day; I won't talk to you, but you can watch me stumble around blindly whilst flapping my fingers for most of the day.

So going by the QLD government, AS/AD are both disabilities.

I was real good in English but sucked in high school but my teacher still said I was good at it even though I didn't think so.

I became a very good speller in 4th grade and loved reading when I was nine and I learned about comas and quotes, and figured out how they were used just by reading. I started writing in 4th grade and stopped and then started again when I was 12. When I look at my old stories I see I am using big words but they are misused. I was imitating writers, doing echolalia again. But my mother says they were used correctly but to me they seem misused. I wrote a long story in 4th grade for an assignment while other kids theirs was 2 or 3 pages long while mine was about 10 pages and my hand got sore and my arm I ended it just like that because I couldn't take a break and I wanted to go to bed and the assignment was due the next day but the student teacher thought the ending was good and so did my parents, my teacher even left a long comment at the end, the student teacher I mean.

Then WHY DON'T THEY?!?!? I am trying to cover my weak points now, and one is MATH. I am learning on the basis of stuff covered TODAY and, thus, learning about people TODAY!

Some people have made ******STUPID****** errors, and taken MONTHS to do it, and then I do better in less than an hour?!?!?!? COMEON!! !! ! People try to take credit for MY work, and give me credit for THEIR errors?!?!?!? COMEON!! !! ! People are putting TI-89s in TI-83+ cases to pass tests!?!?!? COMEON!! !! !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-89#Case_swapping

As bad as I am in math, the average person my age is WORSE!! !! BTW they didn't even accept calculators until a bit before I left highschool and, EVEN THEN, didn't accept anything above calculators that had fewer features than the average $5 calculator does today!