For curebie hating, NT-bashing, holier than thou aspies

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zendell
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07 Feb 2008, 2:56 pm

Points I've been trying to make
1. I'm don't post evidence of environmental causes to convince anyone that autism isn't genetic. I just want people to be open-minded and realize there are other possible causes of autistic symptoms.

2. The causes of autism have NOT been proven.

3. It's illogical to say there aren't non-genetic causes because you can NEVER prove a negative

4. There is scientific evidence that environmental factors play a role in autism (in addition to genetic factors).

5. Infections may cause autism symptoms. This is good because these can be treated which gives hope to those of us who want to improve ourselves.

6. Studies have found inflammation in autistics that may be due to the immune system fighting an infection. This would explain why some autistics have larger heads. http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/autism-inflammation

7. One study found that herpes encephalitis causes autistic symptoms. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12369775 I am NOT saying that herpes causes autism. All I'm stating is that infections can cause symptoms of autism. This makes it impossible to rule out infections as a cause of autism. To do so would be rejecting science.

8. Curebie haters should to be more open minded and stop rejecting all the science that disagrees with their faith (belief that autism is always genetic, 100% of the time). I worry that curebie haters will get really depressed once some causes of autism are proven and their faith is shattered.

9. I accept both genetic and environmental factors as causes of autistic symptoms based on the research. I want people to stop posting every genetic study that supports their position while rejecting and bashing every study that opposes their personal beliefs. Just because a researcher concluded something that doesn't agree with your beliefs doesn't mean it's junk science.

10. This may offend the NT-hating, holier than thou aspies. However, the anti-cure posts are just as offensive to those of us who want to recover and get better. Some of us would rather die than be autistic so it's really hurtful to oppose research and treatments for our symptoms.



jawbrodt
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07 Feb 2008, 3:21 pm

I've managed to control, just one symptom, and it has changed my personality quite a bit. If there were a "cure" that affected every known autistic symptom, I know, I would be a totally different person. Whether good or bad, I can't say. I don't think I would be willing to take that chance unless it were completely reverseable. My hope is that research targets each symptom individually, and provides choices, as to which symptoms each person would like to treat. To wish for a cure-all is irrational, and a bit insane. My advice is, to concentrate on each specific symptom you would like treatment for, and forget about a cure-all. :wink:



Phagocyte
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07 Feb 2008, 3:27 pm

I appreciate your posts. I disagree with you on many fronts, but I like to read what you have to say on the subject. This is a slippery topic and still currently very much a scientific mystery, and such an issue requires open-mindedness and research on both sides of the fence.

As far as my stance on vaccines, I can see both sides. I have known those with Asperger's syndrome who are quite a bit more intelligent than myself and many of my fellow neurotypicals, so I can understand why the notion of a "cure" is offensive. At the same time, there are forms of autism much more extreme than AS and it seems unfair for those with AS, a mild condition what is often advantageous in some ways, to speak for those who are retarded and completely unable to cope with their environment. While I find that calling it a "cure" is a bit presumptuous as there is insufficient evidence to liken it to a pathogen, I can see why some may want a cure and why others hate the idea.


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Last edited by Phagocyte on 07 Feb 2008, 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Reyairia
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07 Feb 2008, 3:28 pm

Hmph. I think both curebies and holier-than-thou auties are both silly.
I think that the only reason why autism is considered a disability is because we are in a minority. Also because modern society fears difference rather than endorsing it like a lot of ancient societies did.
I don't think autism is something to be cured, but it shouldn't be considered genius on automatic. :roll:

It's like girls and boys with grades; girls generally get higher grades than boys do, but boys get the highest grades. I think it's the same with NTs and Aspies with success in life. NTs generally have more success and live more stable lives, but the ones with the names in the history textbooks (or most of them) are auties/aspies. Neither is superior to one another, the same way girls are not more intelligent than boys or vice-versa.

Ok, I'm a bit different. But why should it matter if that bothers people whom I'll never meet again in my life? Someone who actually does get close to me should be able to appreciate me, autistic or not. Plus, a social life isn't that fundamental after high school, anyway.

I'd accept a cure for low-functioning autism, for those that are too stricken with it to actually function properly (too much of anything is bad, same with being too extroverted for NTs). As for high functioning? No way.



Last edited by Reyairia on 07 Feb 2008, 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Riddick124
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07 Feb 2008, 3:34 pm

I would like there to be a cure discovered, but have it be optional, not forced or even pressured onto us. Imo, the best possible cure would be a pill you take to completely control ALL the autism "symptoms", but that would wear off quickly, so that aspies can experiance being NT before deciding to keep taking it. Sort of a trial, to make sure you REALLY want to be NT before changing, you know what I mean?



Cyanide
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07 Feb 2008, 3:38 pm

I think the reason a lot of people are against "the cure" is because there's a 99.9% chance it would be forced onto everyone.
I can see it now.....applying for a job....."Sorry, we won't hire you until you get the cure."



Age1600
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07 Feb 2008, 3:40 pm

jawbrodt wrote:
I've managed to control, just one symptom, and it has changed my personality quite a bit. If there were a "cure" that affected every known autistic symptom, I know, I would be a totally different person. Whether good or bad, I can't say. I don't think I would be willing to take that chance unless it were completely reverseable. My hope is that research targets each symptom individually, and provides choices, as to which symptoms each person would like to treat. To wish for a cure-all is irrational, and a bit insane. My advice is, to concentrate on each specific symptom you would like treatment for, and forget about a cure-all. :wink:


I like the way you put it! I for one am doing anything possible to make sure to keep myself happy, and make sure everybody around me is happy as well. Meaning, finding a way that doesn't hurt me or change me, but that makes me be able to control my autistic tendencies better where it won't affect my lifestyle or anybody else around me. I'm doing it the non-biomedical way, the non-therapautic way, I'm doing it a way, I can still be me and not hurt or change me in any way.

I'm doing sign, pecs, redirecting my autistic behaviors into better ways, finding other ways of expressing the way im feeling with certian things, talking to other ppl, making autism more aware so ppl can understand who i am, and still accept me. Therefore, i can still handflap, giggling uncontrollably, spin out of excitement, and be myself, without doing stuff thats too expensive, or that might eliminate what god gave to me in the first place! The gym i go to, already knows im autistic, they talk to me in a calm voice, no loud tones, no sarcasm, understands i dont give eye contact, and treats me like an individual, and know my exact routine, I spread my awareness there. I let the world know who i am, i'm not afraid to. When i do become a mother, i'm going to do the same thing for that child, make sure as much as i can possible to make that child happy, no matter how functioning they are, and make sure everybody around that child accepts that child as well.


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zendell
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07 Feb 2008, 3:51 pm

jawbrodt wrote:
I've managed to control, just one symptom, and it has changed my personality quite a bit. If there were a "cure" that affected every known autistic symptom, I know, I would be a totally different person. Whether good or bad, I can't say. I don't think I would be willing to take that chance unless it were completely reverseable. My hope is that research targets each symptom individually, and provides choices, as to which symptoms each person would like to treat. To wish for a cure-all is irrational, and a bit insane. My advice is, to concentrate on each specific symptom you would like treatment for, and forget about a cure-all. :wink:


I think that's a good idea if it's possible. There is one possible way that may temporarily treat autistic symptoms. Some autistics have symptoms due to a reduced blood flow to the brain and a prescription called Pentoxifylline can temporarily improve circulation. There is only one study on it that started after an autistic improved while put on it to treat a problem unrelated to autism.

"Pentoxifylline was given to a child with autism in Japan to treat suspected brain damage from an accident. After this treatment, the boy showed marked improvement of his autistic symptoms. When 23 children with autism were treated with pentoxifylline (150-600 mg/day), the drug was reported to be remarkably effective in 10 of the children with some of the group no longer considered to be autistic. The drug was also very effective in treating seizures...the primary use of this drug is to improve blood circulation" http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/book/bk7sect2.html



sojournertruth
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07 Feb 2008, 4:03 pm

Quote:
Side effects included nausea, vomiting, low blood pressure, and headache.


since I have low blood pressure already, that would probably kill me. Oh, well...



zendell
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07 Feb 2008, 4:04 pm

Phagocyte wrote:
I appreciate your posts. I disagree with you on many fronts, but I like to read what you have to say on the subject. This is a slippery topic and still currently very much a scientific mystery, and such an issue requires open-mindedness and research on both sides of the fence.

As far as my stance on vaccines, I can see both sides. I have known those with Asperger's syndrome who are quite a bit more intelligent than myself and many of my fellow neurotypicals, so I can understand why the notion of a "cure" is offensive. At the same time, there are forms of autism much more extreme than AS and it seems unfair for those with AS, a mild condition what is often advantageous in some ways, to speak for those who are retarded and completely unable to cope with their environment. While I find that calling it a "cure" is a bit presumptuous as there is insufficient evidence to liken it to a pathogen, I can see why some may want a cure and why others hate the idea.


"I appreciate your posts." Thanks. :) Sometimes I think everyone here wants me to go away. My view toward a cure (or I should say treatment) is testing and treating known problems for those who want to recover. DAN! doctors will test for nutrient deficiencies and supplement those that are deficient. Scientific studies show that correcting these deficiencies make people less autistic. Some people are bothered by this and I really don't know why because I don't see how being vitamin deficient is part of who a person is. Same thing with testing and treating infections. There's reports of people becoming autistic after getting a viral infection and I see know reason why it shouldn't be treated if it's possible to treat it.



zendell
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07 Feb 2008, 4:07 pm

Cyanide wrote:
I think the reason a lot of people are against "the cure" is because there's a 99.9% chance it would be forced onto everyone.
I can see it now.....applying for a job....."Sorry, we won't hire you until you get the cure."


I don't think there is any chance that would happen. I don't mean to be offensive, but it strikes me as paranoia.



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07 Feb 2008, 4:08 pm

zendell, if you're going to spend the rest of your life trying to get cured, you might forget to live the life you have. The average NT doesn't have the natural ability to be a symphony musician but that doesn't make them sick. Ok, NVC isnt my strong point but so what; it's not as if I'm blind, deaf or physically crippled... NT's want to be cured too, cured of being poor, ugly, fat. But so what? A life overexamined is a life not lived. TSZ.


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zendell
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07 Feb 2008, 4:10 pm

Age1600 wrote:
jawbrodt wrote:
I've managed to control, just one symptom, and it has changed my personality quite a bit. If there were a "cure" that affected every known autistic symptom, I know, I would be a totally different person. Whether good or bad, I can't say. I don't think I would be willing to take that chance unless it were completely reverseable. My hope is that research targets each symptom individually, and provides choices, as to which symptoms each person would like to treat. To wish for a cure-all is irrational, and a bit insane. My advice is, to concentrate on each specific symptom you would like treatment for, and forget about a cure-all. :wink:


I like the way you put it! I for one am doing anything possible to make sure to keep myself happy, and make sure everybody around me is happy as well. Meaning, finding a way that doesn't hurt me or change me, but that makes me be able to control my autistic tendencies better where it won't affect my lifestyle or anybody else around me. I'm doing it the non-biomedical way, the non-therapautic way, I'm doing it a way, I can still be me and not hurt or change me in any way.

I'm doing sign, pecs, redirecting my autistic behaviors into better ways, finding other ways of expressing the way im feeling with certian things, talking to other ppl, making autism more aware so ppl can understand who i am, and still accept me. Therefore, i can still handflap, giggling uncontrollably, spin out of excitement, and be myself, without doing stuff thats too expensive, or that might eliminate what god gave to me in the first place! The gym i go to, already knows im autistic, they talk to me in a calm voice, no loud tones, no sarcasm, understands i dont give eye contact, and treats me like an individual, and know my exact routine, I spread my awareness there. I let the world know who i am, i'm not afraid to. When i do become a mother, i'm going to do the same thing for that child, make sure as much as i can possible to make that child happy, no matter how functioning they are, and make sure everybody around that child accepts that child as well.


I support what you are doing. I just don't like those who want to prevent me from choosing an alternate path by opposing research into biomedical treatments.



WilsonFisk
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07 Feb 2008, 4:13 pm

I think there should be some sort quota for number of new threads started within a certain time period by the same user.



zendell
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07 Feb 2008, 4:15 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
zendell, if you're going to spend the rest of your life trying to get cured, you might forget to live the life you have. The average NT doesn't have the natural ability to be a symphony musician but that doesn't make them sick. Ok, NVC isnt my strong point but so what; it's not as if I'm blind, deaf or physically crippled... NT's want to be cured too, cured of being poor, ugly, fat. But so what? A life overexamined is a life not lived. TSZ.


Without treatment, I will never be able to get a good job, have close friends, get a girlfriend, get married, have kids, or be part of a family. I will always be lonely and depressed without biomedical treatments. You are probably higher functioning than me and can enjoy your life but I can't.