Piloting is it only for NT's? Heavy machinery not for AS?

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kbergren21
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20 Feb 2008, 1:09 am

Pardon for being at a sarcastic moment of my life. So here's my problemo P. I'm nearly 2.5 years in the military and 11/12ths through military pilot training. (Ten flights left to go) Past primary which is essentially pilot boot camp. Now Im 3/4 of the way through specialist training (learning to fly large aircraft like 737) I missed a minor radio call on departure. My boss had a brother with AS and asked me if I had it. So I politely told him the truth.

But because I lack the "exceptional" social skills they want to send me to a psychiatrist. Which means they are likely going to kick me out military with less than 10 flights to graduate and mission qualified. (Yes, the training I already recieved is worth approximately 2 million of your tax payers dollars.)

Does anyone know that FAA (the civilian counterpart) doesn't allow people to pilot aircraft because of AS? I do have my civilian private, instrument, and commercial rating. Or do I need to start keeping this thing secret? For christ sakes I know how to fly 737 and not afraid at all of operating it. What are your feeling on operating heavy machinery?



Mum2ASDboy
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20 Feb 2008, 2:06 am

Why should you not continue?? As you say, you have the knowledge and ability to do what is required.
I think social skills matter in ALL jobs, not just military. It should not matter that you lack social skills it should be about whether or not you can do the job properly!!
IF you have to go see the psychiatrist then make sure he knows of your knowledge and abilities!!
And remember not all NT's have great social skills.



Brittany2907
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20 Feb 2008, 5:03 am

Well while I haven't operated any heavy machinery...I do know that your boss IS discriminating against you because of AS. He has no legal right to do that. No matter of a persons diagnosis, if they can fly the plane in a safe way and do their job, then that should be all that matters.
And really...how will a psychiatrist help your social skills? :? ....They aren't trained to teach them. I'm sorry to say, but I think your boss is deluted...and if you get kicked out of the military, you should sue him!


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woodsman25
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20 Feb 2008, 5:53 am

Brittany2907 wrote:
Well while I haven't operated any heavy machinery...I do know that your boss IS discriminating against you because of AS. He has no legal right to do that. No matter of a persons diagnosis, if they can fly the plane in a safe way and do their job, then that should be all that matters.
And really...how will a psychiatrist help your social skills? :? ....They aren't trained to teach them. I'm sorry to say, but I think your boss is deluted...and if you get kicked out of the military, you should sue him!


Civilian and military rules are VERY different. Discrimination like this can be dealt with by sueing and all in the civilian sector but as far as the military goes they definatly can discriminate on a few things.

I definatly think thats a load of BS man, not only do they threaten to kick you outa the military, or at least flight school or whatever, but make you see a psychiatrist? Perhapse they are not trying to teach you social skills but to dertemine if your AS will make you unfit to fly. I am willing to bet how you do in the dr.s office will determine your fate. I honestly dont think that if the DR feels you are compitent but just lack a few social skills wont keep you from flying.

I drive a fork lift at work that weighs more then a car. hell the batteries that power the damn thing weigh themselfs 900lbs! I do have sensory issues, that is my biggest concern, if their is alot going on around me, too many people moving around me to close, lots of noise and other traffic in the warehouse, and general chaos (I can deal with some of it tho) and if things get to intense I know I need to get off the forklift (and I dont care how many times I need to fight and argue with the boss) and take a time out, otherwise someone may get ran over or I may loose my ability to control my emotions.

Everyone is different, but thats how I feel. Obviously what yourself and I do are very different, and will present very different issues for our AS.

Personally I dont think it can EVER benifit ya telling anybody, I mean look at the situation you are in now, your compitence is being investigated. Unfortunatly this is the world we live in, and it just sucks. Telling people you have an ASD has done nothing but isolate me, hold me back and make people think I am less compitent.


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20 Feb 2008, 9:44 am

I would say be careful! NTs ARE judgementals, especially with anything related to "mental" disorders (don't forget they still use heavily the word "disorder")... In the civilian airlines, they will never let you fly a machine that has many poeples onboard... Imagine the title "XYZ airliner hires autistics as pilots!" Or worst "Autistic pilot crash a plane killing x poeples..."

You know they will never make the difference between autism, asperger, depression, bipolar, OCD, and mechanical failure.... And the guy at the interview will quickly run those scenarios in his head and gently refuse to hire you, and you will never know that it was discrimination....

On another note, i did pilot training, and i stopped by myself.... and you know why ? Problems with the radio! I can drive the machine no problem, but i have to ask the controller to say again almost everything.... and oh! how do you handle unexpected, never seen before, emergency situations ?



kbergren21
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20 Feb 2008, 12:00 pm

coyote wrote:
I would say be careful! NTs ARE judgementals, especially with anything related to "mental" disorders (don't forget they still use heavily the word "disorder")... In the civilian airlines, they will never let you fly a machine that has many poeples onboard... Imagine the title "XYZ airliner hires autistics as pilots!" Or worst "Autistic pilot crash a plane killing x poeples..."

You know they will never make the difference between autism, asperger, depression, bipolar, OCD, and mechanical failure.... And the guy at the interview will quickly run those scenarios in his head and gently refuse to hire you, and you will never know that it was discrimination....

On another note, i did pilot training, and i stopped by myself.... and you know why ? Problems with the radio! I can drive the machine no problem, but i have to ask the controller to say again almost everything.... and oh! how do you handle unexpected, never seen before, emergency situations ?


We are trained to simulate everything between a engine failure to gear failure. Emergencies happen quite regularly I've been in a few that I can think of. The key is to talk to the crew to come up with a good decision. Neither of those things worry me. I know class B airspace is a little crazy it just takes adapting.



FreeSpirit2000
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31 Jan 2010, 8:23 pm

coyote wrote:
I would say be careful! NTs ARE judgementals, especially with anything related to "mental" disorders (don't forget they still use heavily the word "disorder")... In the civilian airlines, they will never let you fly a machine that has many poeples onboard... Imagine the title "XYZ airliner hires autistics as pilots!" Or worst "Autistic pilot crash a plane killing x poeples..."

You know they will never make the difference between autism, asperger, depression, bipolar, OCD, and mechanical failure.... And the guy at the interview will quickly run those scenarios in his head and gently refuse to hire you, and you will never know that it was discrimination....

On another note, i did pilot training, and i stopped by myself.... and you know why ? Problems with the radio! I can drive the machine no problem, but i have to ask the controller to say again almost everything.... and oh! how do you handle unexpected, never seen before, emergency situations ?


I have to admit, people might get freaked out when people with AS may fly a plane, but people need to face the realities that people with AS are everywhere, like, They are working at the Trading Desk of a Wall Street Financial Firm, they are working in the IT Division of Microsoft, they are working at your Elementary School as a Teacher, they can be a Professor at your University's Engineering, History or Philosophy department, they can be your research scientist at your local lab, they can work as a Physican at your local Hospital, they can be your Artist, they can even be your local Comic Book Store owner. People need to accept that having AS is not some big liability where people, infact some AS people can make more then NT people if they adapt good communication with others and if they have grades + skills, good. It is not like AS is the same thing as mental retardation or down syndrome or anything of that sort. AS people might be the people who probably got treated like sh****t in High School or your stereotype of "nerdy" "dorky" etc. in High School and then when you see them like at the age of 30 or 40, some of them will probably have cool tight jobs, if they can develop a lot of self esteem. Remember, you are in control of yourself and you know what you are capable of, that is all I can say.



BetsyRath
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31 Jan 2010, 8:40 pm

I would completely deny it and say you were being flippant. This BS makes me so angry! My husband flies airplanes and is just short of getting his license (fun, not work)


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01 Feb 2010, 9:39 am

I think your boss is trying to keep you going. X is good, but is having radio problems. Identify and fix the problem.

As you say, a lot has been invested. No one is perfect, the best are trained in fighters, not transport.

Get with it, the radio is just another control, learn to use it.

Overcoming yourself is everybodies main problem, be yourself on your own time, not when other lives depend on your function.

Lots of people here have identified a problem area, learned to deal with it, and gone on.

Washouts are just given their transfer papers, you are being kept.

Everyone has faults, not everyone can take ownership, and face them.



Liir
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01 Feb 2010, 5:30 pm

I`d suggest you either keep your diagnosis a secret in the future or you make sure that the other person knows exactly what it means and how it (doesn`t) impair you. As it was mentioned before, people are affraid of anything even related to mental disorders or whatever you call it. I sure hope that psychiatrist clears you for this work, otherwise you should probably consider some complaints/law-suit or something similar. Judging from what you said it sounds like discrimination, although it could be very hard to prove for either side.



MoonRa
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05 Feb 2010, 1:28 pm

I think I already know to enough to determine the outcome of some diagnoses myself (note. if I have AS, it would only be mild).
Though, I may not be able to fake all tests, I can answer questions in some 'positive-past context' as well, that is, focussing on the good experiences and leaving out all minor AS treats.

kbergren21 wrote:
What are your feeling on operating heavy machinery?

I'm an engineer, not an operator, anyway, it's fun as long as there it's too much noise.
Communicating with multiple people and solving problems in a noisey environment is very exhausting (as for most people I guess).
.. odd thing is, at work I'm doing very well, at other places not so good.



Ishtara
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06 Feb 2010, 6:22 am

My dad, whom I suspect has AS (but who would never entertain the notion that anything is wrong with him, so we'll never know), has an uncanny level of ability when it comes to vehicles. He has a boat licence, a heavy vehicle licence, and a pilot's instructors licence (and he's working on his commercial licence). AS shouldn't affect your ability, particularly if you've already proven you can keep up with the work.



Katie_WPG
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11 Feb 2010, 11:26 pm

I would go to the psychiatrist just to follow orders. Just prepare a list of reasons why you should continue in the military. Showing defiance could result in disciplinary actions or discharge.

One thing to note is that a heavy machinery "ban" for people with "mental disorders" is primarily due to the fact that many psychiatric medications can cause sudden drowsiness. Since there are a few people with AS that take medication, your boss just might want to confirm that you don't require any of those medications and that you're fine to operate an aircraft.



tokeee_smokeee
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19 Feb 2010, 1:09 pm

I thought most aspies were generally more clumsy than average people?



MoonRa
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19 Feb 2010, 5:54 pm

tokeee_smokeee wrote:
I thought most aspies were generally more clumsy than average people?


Heavy machinery are mostly operated by means of computers nowdays; I'd rather put an Aspie in control for that then some sports hero :D

Even more, I think 'clumsyness with aspies' more refer to social context. For example, through some training I can juggle more balls then most people, however I would ever be 'clumsy' in a volley-ball team, never knowning if I should go for the ball or let my team-mates go for the catch..

I don't and deny and respect that there obviously are some autistics with lesser motoric stills or interests, however those will fail the training. Those aspies that pass the training however, can do the job over and over again with accuracy and precision.



AnnieDog
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24 Feb 2010, 10:35 am

Ah, the joys of the military...

It is possible that the psych eval will turn out OK. You're not crazy, right? Some military psych guys are actually OK.
I had a friend that did Signals work for the Navy (that's all he would ever say.) He was starting to show signs of schizophrenia, but his Navy Psych started by treating it as simple depression. With simple depression, including meds, he could stay in. With schizophrenia, he was going to get a medical discharge - that's just a little too much for the Navy to handle. He kept it together for a few years and then got an honorable discharge. I believe he's now getting more treatment, but it was important to him that he finish his initial run with the Navy.

For civilian pilots, I'd be interested to hear what a flight surgeon has to say about it. Another friend who is definitely not NT (I recognize members of the tribe) has a commercial rating and helicopter, as well as some instructor ratings.

Personally, kudos to you for doing the flight program. I have fine motor skills issues and some visual stuff, but adore air traffic control. Back when civilians could, I used to hang out at my local tower, Boston Center, and GIANT KILLER (depending on where I lived at the time) and watch the ATCs work. If I could, I would have switched careers to that.


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