An all-out assualt on far-right Christian fundamentalism!! !

Post Reply New Topic

Inspired by another thread which involved visions of Hell, I wish to start my assualt on Christian fundamentalism.

Please note: This is not an attack against the Christian religion in general.

Many times in history people have used religion for worldly purposes, usually to coerce others into accepting their viewpoint and political ideology. Unfortunately this trend still exists in the world today.

Telling people that they will go to Hell is a very powerful weapon one can use against people they don't like or who have a different political agenda to. I for one, having Christian tendencies, might have succumbed to people's lies, if it were not for my ability to out-think the bigots.

Left-Wingers have always come under fire from so-called Christians for being unholy, yet in my opinion, we keep Jesus' principles better than anyone else. After all, Jesus befriended all the criminals, prostitutes, etc, and attacked the authorities!! ! What does that tell you about his ideology?

The Christian far-right Republicans have for too long controlled the masses into believing their conservative tripe by stigmatising vast groups of society including gay people and prostitutes.

Of course it may be true, and I may be on my way to Hell, but I doubt that a lot...........

I think the more pertinent danger is that you might fall into the same trap of ideological superiority and demonization of the opposition that these other fundamentalists fall into.

The whole game of categorizing people and holding their actions to be the source of ill in the world, is what generally causes trouble. It's the us and them delusion. As they say "the devil is in the details" or "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

RobertN doesnt have a lot of power though. A lot of these fundamentalist christians do, particularly in the USA and are using their power wrongly. I happen to agree with a lot of what Robert N says.

All fundamentalism is scary. Period.

Well I have felt the same indignation that RobertN is expressing, and I asked myself what I could do about it. I of course don't have much power either. So getting mad at them and ranting about it does nothing but wear me out and use up my time. What I find I can do, is to try and understand the other side and the problem itself as thoroughly as possible.

So I'm not criticizing you RobertN, I'm just saying I've pondered these questions too, I always end up taking a long hard look at myself and realizing that I'm just as guilty as "them"

You're just as guilty as them? Sounds like hippy stuff to me. Maybe if you were in power you would be, but until then im blaming those in power.

My whole thought on religion is that while it's important in the sense that people have a sense of purpose and those who need it in their lives have it, rolling over other cultures because someone believes their way is the only right way is just messed up. Personally I think this world is too diverse, everyone's experience of life has so many different skews based on their genes and what they've seen or been through, that saying accepting jesus into ones heart is the sole technicality for heaven or hell really makes a glaring contradiction: If god is omniscient and all knowing and he loved us all equally then I can't see him finding it to have one child born to a muslim house hold in Syria, one child to a buddhist famili in Thailand, one lucky child to a nice little bible-belt town in Kansas, one to a crackhouse in NYC; if the first 2 things I said were true about him (loving us all equally and being omnipotent as well as omniscient) he'd probably have to weigh people's end results of their lives more via intentions and whether or not they were good at heart and stuck up for the right thing rather than just weighing everything on one technicality that came all too easy for a few people who's parents and entire communities made em believe it vs. someone born in a culture where christians and jews are seen as the forces of satan.

It's like we're thrown into a swimming pool on a sheet of acid and have no way of telling in our state which way is up. As shotty and unconvincing as all the dogma is out there, all people really have to rely on is their instincts, their roots, and what makes sense to them based on their neurology and how they process the world arround them. Some how I can't see an all-knowing all-loving god creating people who he knows would never find the true path; if it were like that, anyone who was a truth seeker would have some very tangible marks to go by which would lead them straight to Jesus - unfortunately that's not the case (at least as far as I've seen) and if it were the truth then I wish it was so.

As for my GWB votes, those were on completely different issues and that idea to make an ammendment against gay marriage was kinda crass - I agree with Cheyne though, since the coasts operate differently than the bible belt that should really be a state issue, not a national one.

I think all religious fundamentalism is inherently dangerous - I agree that the big problem here in the U.S. - especially in the lovely south where I live, is fundamental Christianity (I say this and I'm Christian myself - but I think that God put my brain in my head for a reason) . . . but I think you would find the same thing everywhere you go - in the middle east you would find ultra fundamental Islamics, I know of several ultra-fundamental Jewish groups in the U.S., I'm sure there are some annoying Buddists out there . . . etc . . .
In fact, you can take this further and say that ultra-fundamentalism of any kind is wrong (you all know I'm a big animal welfare supporter but HATE the animal rights movement even though I'm a vegan myself - this is exactly why) - you see the same thing with ultra-feminism, any of the very radical concepts of race, etc . . .

Basically, it is just a problem when we think that WE are right and EVERYONE else is wrong PERIOD - doesn't matter why we think that - it is the thought process that is the problem . . .

This is a viewpoint from a fairly conservative Christian: I am in no way a fundamentalist and I do not preach fiery hell and brimstone for eternity if one does not believe. I believe that all sin is wrong, but everyone sins at one point or another in their lifetime because we aren't perfect. (Only perfect people do not sin.) I don't like sin, whether it's my own or someone else's. But Jesus calls us to love our neighbours.

Here is a practical example, which some of you may remember me asking about earlier. My neighbours are gay. They are also very nice people and good neighbours. I don't agree with their homosexual lifestyle, but I accept them for who they are, despite whatever choices they are making with their life. As long as it does not affect me, I will not judge them for their lifestyle.

Fundamentalism of any religion, however, is not the best thing. But Fundamentalism does not accurately represent the religion as a whole. Not all Muslims are Fundamental, but many of those involved in the terrorism recently have been. Not all Christians are Fundamental, either. Even being a conservative Christian myself, I have my own skepticism about being a Fundamentalist Christian. To me, that is taking religion one step too far, and could be very dangerous.

Right on Namiko, thankyou, you know we read lots of criticism against Christians, and yet during a tragedy, we are almost always the first ones there, shelters are mostly run by Christians. Teen Challenge and Victory outreaches are run by Christians. As I walked the streets of hollywood with homeless teens, it was the Christians who were out there trying to help, yet scientology wouldn't even speak to them and they have a huge building right smack in the middle of hollywood...how do I know? When I was alone, I was approached by them, when I had a homeless teen with me, they didn't even speak to me. the kids knew who the Churches were that persistantly tried to help, drove'em nuts sometimes, yet when they hit bottom they knew who would help them. And I can't honestly think of any charity around run by athiests, although I am sure there are some, somewhere. Although I'm not a fundamentalist, I gotta say, they do step up when needed, I'll work with them and I have, but because I am secure with who I am and what I believe...they don't scare me, and actually...they've never tried to.

I've noticed the same things, and am Christian myself. After learning about each party's general views on economy (etc.), I'll proably become a Democrat when I turn 18. My family (being mostly Christian) is going to attack for this, simply because the majority of Christains are Republicans. The need to conform to mainstream Christianity is too high, and I really don't like most mainstream Christian anything. This is why I seem out of place at church, mainstream Christianity owns everybody. The theology (spelling?), the beliefs, the mannerisms, the interpretations of verses. It's all spoon fed and people believe it too easily. Never checking sources, never questioning, and letting themselves be controlled. I have similar issues with Catholicism and the Pope, but that's for another thread. I just have a general disliking for mainstream Christian culture because of how overly simple-minded and easily brainwashed people can be. I have though many times about just renaming my believes something else, just to disassociate myself with the hordes of hypocrites that are most Christians. Hypocracy, oh... I should stop ranting now. I just hate how some verses can be so easily misunderstood, distorted, misquoted, and interpreted in only one possible way so that any other way of looking at it seems wrong. So I think Adam & Eve isn't meant to be taken literally and that the Earth wan't really made in 6 human days. If I told the Christian TV station that, I'd probably be told I'm going to Hell and have a few circular arguments about faith thrown at me too. Yes, there's some faith involved in Christianity, but the Bible doesn't say it has to be blind. It doesn't say you can't question something accepted as true, even though Billy Graham said it. The Bible doesn't say you have to force believes down peolpe's throats. Then again, the Bible doesn't interpret itself for you either. I'm Christian, I'm Liberal, and I think worshipping Jesus is no excuse for Christian rockers to have a terrible singing voice and shi**y acoustic guitar playing.

I agree with that. I have friends that know I'm Christian (etc.) who aren't Christians, and if they ask me to explain it I usually do in a failry understandable way. What;s scary about fundamentalism is how wide spread it is. I can't really go into detail, because my real issues are with hypocrites and mainstream Christianity. I don't really have much of a grip on what exactly fundamental Christianity is.

All right! Vive la révolution!

I'm already praying for the death of whoever wanted American Christians to pray for the death of some Supreme Court justices. Was that Pat Buchannon? Anyone got a flamethrower I could borrow?

well golly ghee... God must have been listening because the most reactionary judge of them all - the evil Renquist - bit the big one.

Oh well - better get back to praying... Scalia, Roberts, bush and Chaney are next on the list..

Did you notice - No blue states were injured by Rita and Katrina.

Actually most charities arent religious and i knew several atheists that were involved in Christian charities. Obviously in areas that are highly Christian then they will be the most active in charity. Despite this it is countries that arent particularly religious and lack fundamentalists that are the most charitable like Norway, Belguim, the Netherlands.

I dont find conservative fundamentalist Christians to be very giving. That is why they cut benefits and have policies that disadvantage developing nations then try to make out they are heros by giving a little out in well publisised charity to the people they helped stay down in the gutter in the first place. Despite this i recognise there are those religious people who follow the teachings of Jesus and are very giving like Mother Theresa and i salute them.

I was starting to wonder why I don't usually get involved in these kinds of debates...thanks for reminding me. Da*n mis-placed humor...