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acousticvalley
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30 Sep 2005, 9:12 am

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Last edited by acousticvalley on 09 Nov 2005, 3:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Nomaken
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30 Sep 2005, 10:24 am

On some levels yes, on others no. Humans developed to be communal animals. Birds more often are not. They dont have heirarchy, or any kind of social behaviors other than mating and traveling in groups. Most of the time anyway. But for some instincts, we still have the reflexes of the bird brain. Like taking advantage of a situation, and fearing and hating differences, and a self serving predisposition.


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30 Sep 2005, 11:31 am

This is a link I posted on another site a while ago. It tries to imply that birds are alot like autistics 8O definately a unique theory;

http://www.budgieresearch.homestead.com ... abble.html

Quote:
written by Ryan B. Reynolds

Barriers In Communication Theory:
"For my theories to make any sense, you have to understand that parrots are highly intelligent and capable of learning our language quickly. What I claim is not just speculation. Victor was the first parrot to prove beyond a doubt that they can understand what they are saying. Many other budgies in our group have also confirmed this. However, comprehension is not easy unless we can understand their way of thinking. Here are some of the physiological and psychological phenomena in budgerigars which most people have trouble understanding. This misunderstanding on our part prevents a large percentage of budgies from developing their communication abilities to the fullest.
(PTD) Parakeet Time Differential:
A parakeet's metabolism is much faster than ours. Because of this, their thinking process is faster as well. Science confirms our brain waves travel at the speed of light. In comparison to a budgie, our thought patterns would have to travel many more times the distance because of its larger size. Therefore, a parakeet may think several thoughts during the time we have one. When they talk, it seems as if it is unintelligent babbling, when in actuality, their thinking process is too fast for us to understand. Additionally, their shorter life spans (10-15 years) contributes to an accelerated experience of life. For example, one hour of our time is equal to 10 hours of parakeet time. During that time they would experience 10 hours of thoughts, emotions, and experiences as well.
It is important that we know about this time differential when we are relating to them on a daily basis. This means we should also be sensitive to the effects of leaving them in a cage for extended periods of time. Unless they have some kind of mental stimulation when they are alone or otherwise, they may become withdrawn and uncommunicative quickly. This negative environment of no stimulation can cause them to have a number of psychological problems much like humans would experience in extended periods of isolation.
(PES) Parakeet Emotional Syndrome:
Similar to the acceleration of their time, their emotions are intensified many more times than humans as well. Because these emotions are so powerful, they are unable to control them. A comparable experience in humans is emotions in our dreams. In dreams our emotions are magnified many more times than what they would be in real life. This theory also fits in with (PTD) Parakeet Time Differential. When we dream, it may seem like a long dream, but in actuality, only lasts seconds in real time. Therefore, we can relate to how a parakeet's mind works when we dream.
Some examples of PES arise when parakeets are afraid. One may flop uncontrollably in its cage to a point where it can hurt itself or cause itself a heart attack. Parakeets can also die of a broken heart or become very attached to people and show fits of jealousy.
(PAS) Parakeet Autism Syndrome:
Children and adults with autism typically have difficulties in verbal and non-verbal communication, social interactions, and leisure or play activities. The disorder makes it hard for them to communicate with others and relate to the outside world. In some cases, aggressive and/or self-injurious behavior may be present. Persons with autism may exhibit repetitive body movements (hand flapping, rocking), unusual responses to people or attachments to objects, and resistance to changes in routines. Lately researchers are finding that even though the parents thought they were not getting through to their autistic children, they actually were. Many of these children were found to be highly intelligent and knowing complex language, reading and writing that they had locked away for many years. Much of their inability to communicate was a result of them understanding and receiving too much information at a time. They had to revert to autistic behavior to slow down their thinking process.
I also believe that many, though not all, parakeets develop a form of autism. This, combined with the boredom of captivity, PTD, and PES, averts them from developing their communications skills to the fullest. I believe this because of the way many parakeets act. Many seem like they do not comprehend what was happening around him. Once we start to record them, and break through that barrier, their communication abilities improve at an amazing rate. Under the right circumstances they have a natural ability just waiting to come out.
To get him to come out of their shell, we have to spend several hours a day recording them, playing back the recordings, and telling him what we do and do not not understand. Prior to this process, it seems like many have the symptoms of autism, for example excessive repetition, bobbing of the head, babbling for hours at a time, attachment to inanimate objects. Currently, I am experiencing similar problems with four of my other budgies. However, Victor and Betty proved budgies can learn to talk in context many more times faster than humans.
Maintaining that communication link in more than one budgie is very difficult because of the amount of attention one has to give each one, and the closeness of bonding one needs to achieve to maintain it. Currently, I have a problem maintaining a bond with four budgies at the same time. Although I have made some progress with them, I will never achieve the same results as I did with just one. You can see some of my progress on Betty's Site at http://www.talkingbudgie.homestead.com
(PRS) Parakeet Response Syndrome:
Have you ever listened to the way birds communicate? When a flock gets going it seems like they are all start talking at once. How does one figure out what is being said? Believe me, though; they can understand every word that all of the birds in the flock say.
Sometimes my budgies get talking all at the same time too. Because they are able to process the information much faster than us, and they have trained themselves to do it, they can all listen and talk simultaneously. Although most people find it very difficult to do, it is a proven fact that people can be taught to listen and talk at the same time as well. I believe budgies go one step further and are able to understand and talk to more than one individual at a time.
There is a second part to PRS that is also important. I think we have to realize when a living creature tries to communicate with us they expect to be understood. If budgies talk to us and send us information time after time, and we do not respond or try to understand them, they will eventually give up. They don't necessarily give up talking or babbling, but they will give up trying to be understood. I believe a majority of budgies give up trying to communicate with people because they think people are just not smart enough to understand them. This is due to trying time after time, and not getting any response. Even though they give up, this lack of communication in any sentient being can cause additional emotional stress and can contribute to PAS and PES if they have no one else to communicate with.
(PATS) Parakeet Artistic Talent Syndrome:
When I first started recording Victor I realized that he had a natural poetic ability and natural sense of humor. As I listen to more context speaking budgies it is becoming more evident that many others parrots also have this quality.
Birds in general can whistle and sing in a poetic nature. They speak in cycles and rhythms and mix language in to communicate their thoughts. Until now man has not realized that it is not only the birds sound we like, but its ability to make it sound beautiful and poetic. They are masters at it and it flows right into their speech when they are talking in conversational language as well. This means that they are highly aware of what they are doing and make it part of their existence to be like that.
Just in the past few months alone, there are four other budgies within the Budgie Research Group that are showing very similar abilities as Victor for talking in a poetic and artistic nature. It seems like they are better at it than even humans. Perhaps man has inherited some of this PATS from birds as they were here on this earth long before us. So generally the barrier is when we don't understand them when they are talking in a humorous, and poetic nature. This causes more misunderstandings when they get past the mimicries and start using metaphors, parables, and telling stories. We dismiss it as an impossibility or believe it has to be something they are repeating and not coming from their own minds."


Whaddayathink? Is it just a birdbrained idea? :lol:


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acousticvalley
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30 Sep 2005, 12:29 pm

...



Last edited by acousticvalley on 09 Nov 2005, 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MishLuvsHer2Boys
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30 Sep 2005, 1:29 pm

I've had a few Budgerigars (Budgies aka Parakeets) in my life and I had to laugh at the article as it didn't resemble period any of the birds I've ever kept of the species. I think in some ways people try to make too many correlations to other species which really doesn't matter unless we understand our own species. That's just my opinion. We can't fly, birds can, they have their own uniqueness, we have ours. Why does there always have to be comparisons?



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30 Sep 2005, 1:41 pm

Nomaken wrote:
On some levels yes, on others no. Humans developed to be communal animals. Birds more often are not. They dont have heirarchy, or any kind of social behaviors other than mating and traveling in groups. Most of the time anyway. But for some instincts, we still have the reflexes of the bird brain. Like taking advantage of a situation, and fearing and hating differences, and a self serving predisposition.


What Nomaken said.


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ilikedragons
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30 Sep 2005, 7:08 pm

A parrot whistled at me the way boys do once.



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01 Oct 2005, 12:11 pm

A cutesy but really cool story I found on the net a while ago:

Quote:
There is a type of crab that cannot be caught -- it is agile and clever enough to get out of any crab trap. And yet, these crabs are caught by the thousands every day, thanks to a particular human trait they possess.

The trap is a wire cage with a hole at the top. Bait is placed in the cage, and the cage is lowered into the water. One crab comes along, enters the cage, and begins munching on the bait. A second crab joins him. A third. Crab Thanksgiving. Yummm. Eventually, however, all the bait is gone.

The crabs could easily climb up the side of the cage and through the hole, but they do not. They stay in the cage. Other crabs come along and join them -- long after the bait is gone. And more.

Should one of the crabs realize there is no further reason to stay in the trap and attempts to leave, the other crabs will gang up on him and stop him. They will repeatedly pull him off the side of the cage. If he is persistent, the others will tear off his claws to keep him from climbing. If he persists still, they will kill him.

The crabs -- by force of the majority -- stay together in the cage. The cage is hauled up, and it's dinnertime on the pier.

The chief difference between these crabs and humans is that these crabs live in water and humans on land.

Anyone who has a dream -- one that might get them out of what they perceive to be a trap -- had best beware of the fellow-inhabitants of the trap.

The human crabs (we call them trolls) do not usually use physical force -- although they are certainly not above it. They generally don't need it, however. They have more effective methods at hand, and in mouth -- innuendo, doubt, ridicule, derision, mockery, sarcasm, scorn, sneering, belittlement, humiliation, jeering, taunting, teasing, lying, and dozen others not listed in our thesaurus.

The way to handle such people is the the same method used by Jonathon Joffrey Crab on his clan. (Remember that book about the crab that wasn't content to walk around, he wanted to learn underwater ballet?) Jonathon, knowing the dangers of attempted departure from the cage, said, "Hey! This is fun! What a gathering of crabs! I'm going to go get some more!" And he danced off to freedom.

Our sugestion: keep the trolls away from your goals.


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01 Oct 2005, 5:36 pm

I love turkey. It's my favorite meat.

If only bullies tasted as good. :twisted:


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Serissa
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01 Oct 2005, 8:23 pm

Only Nelly Furtado, that I know of for sure, is definitely like a bird.

((sorry))



PhoenixKitten
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03 Oct 2005, 10:05 am

Sophist wrote:
I love turkey. It's my favorite meat.

If only bullies tasted as good. :twisted:


You should try them sometime! :lol:


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03 Oct 2005, 10:53 am

Heh, no, I don't reccomend it. Hair gel tastes wierd, and trolls and bullies use a lot of hair gel.


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04 Oct 2005, 8:16 am

Flock birds will attempt to drive away or kill an injured bird because its presence will attract predators to the flock putting the other birds, especially young ones, in danger.

Humans are not like this. Evidence of very early human skeletal remains shows that individuals with serious injuries that would have made them unable to walk and find food for themselves lived through their injuries until they had healed (you can tell this by new bone growth around a break or a skull injury). The implication is that others in their social group cared for them and fed them while they recovered. One particular skeleton of an individual with quite severe injuries also showed healing of the bone and that the individual had lived for some time after healing even though the breaks were not set (as they would be these days) and the individual could probably not walk properly. They must therefore have been helped by others within their group.

Just because people like us sometimes get teased and bullied, it does not mean that this is a general trait amongst humans. I often have difficulties getting along with other humans, but most of the people I meet are tolerant and generally good people.