Seizures?

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Hi all!

I would like some opinions/advice on seizures.

I have posted with different concerns in the past and it was once suggested to me (can't remember who by, sorry) that my 9 year old AS son J may be having seizures. It's come up again because I was just reading another persons post, that sounded a lot like J from time to time.

I do have an appointment with the neurology dept at our local children's hospital in June, but I thought I would gather as much info before then as I can.

Heres whats going on;

It appears that sometimes when J is very tired or stressed he at times appears to zone out ie, his face goes blank, his eyes roll sideways and towards the back of his head and he will start to sway into whoever or what ever is closest to him, occasionaly he has missed the person closest to him and fallen to the floor, he has never hurt himself yet thank goodness. Sometimes it's like he has been able to stop himself from falling, ie his legs have given out from under him but after a few seconds of staggering and nearly tripping he has righted himself.

It was suggested that I keep track of whats going on, I am trying to do this, I thought that it was happening more often but I have now discovered what I am witnessing is less frequent.

He did tell me on easter Sunday after having been a little upset, that his brain felt funny, then he gave a little moan, he zoned out for a few seconds, then said he felt sick in his tummy and his brain.
He was on the couch this time so he didn't do the swaying thing.

Another time, I had just picked him up from his arts program it was very hot, he'd done a lot of walking that day and he was tired. I had to drop something off somewhere on our way home, J got out of the car, was on the foot path just as I got to him he became wobbly and kind of fell into me. I held him for about half a min. I couldn't see his face, he said after I straightened him up that he was hot and tired. When I asked him later if he could remember what happened he said no. I then asked him if he felt ok when we went to such and such a place, he said his brain felt funny.

He has had a few more blank stare/spaced out look episodes, he has done this in the pool with his swimming instructor, he has done the eye rolling thing in the pool and else where.
He has told me a few times that his brain feels funny.

All of these episodes have only ever lasted a few seconds to a minute or so.

I have also noticed, because I thought maybe he was putting it on, that this is the only thing he does that I can demand he stop and I sound cross, he doesn't stop nor does he get upset that I have used a cross voice. Usually if he thinks I am cross he is beside himself, saying he is stupid and being angry with himself or really upset. I have even tried ignoring it, it still happens.

My older sister had epilepsy as a child and had her last seizure that anyone knows about in her mid teens. She was never medicated, they were few and far between I think.

Anyone with any information/advice or opinions I look forward to hearing from you. Is there anything else I should/could be looking out for.

Thanks in advance and sorry the post is so long.

The way you describe it, it definately sounds like epilepsy. Perhaps petit mal - the spacing out - but this may not explain his legs buckling. Petit mal should be treated, as it can happen many many times a day, and you only notice the big ones. It really interferes with learning and developement, because their are "holes" in experience. Kids usually grow out of this kind of epilepsy as their brains mature.
Stress and tiredness can provoke epilepsy.
Can he remember the episodes or just before and after? Is he tired after them?
Can he explain the weird feeling: like being detached from himself? Funny smells, memories or sensations? Feeling a weird tummy sensation, which you mention, could definately be part of a seizure.

He should get a EEG done as soon as possible, and you should try to film a seizure (if that's what they are!) even if it's just on your cell phone.
Also, he should be watched extra carefully swimming and even in the bath.

He did it again yesterday.

We had to go out for lunch, the place was a little noisy, but he had his hood on his jacket up and he seamed to be coping ok.
Just as we were getting up to leave, his whole attitude changed he became agressive/cranky didn't want anyone to touch him, wouldn't turn towards anyone when they were talking to him, if we got to close he would move away.
As we started to walk back to where our car was parked I kept looking towards him to make sure he was ok, I was trying to distract him by pointing stuff out in shop windows we were going past. We got to one shop (a cake shop) and I was commenting on the beautiful cakes, J was standing beside me, I look down and he kind of collapsed into me.
I had to hold him up for a little bit he was like a dead weight, I kept asking him to stand and got no response. My older son picked him up and walked a few steps, I looked at his face this time his eyes were closed. I pat him on the shoulder and asked him to open his eyes a few times before he did. My older son put him back down and we continued back to the car. We were in the car driving, maybe 15 minutes. I could see J in the back seat sitting up looking out the window he had been chatting, next time I turn around he is slumped over on the back seat looking like he is asleep. I call his name and tell him to sit up, it takes a second or two but he does. And he responds with "oh wow we got here fast".
He said he felt a little sick, and very tired. He said he heard someone say sit up.
Once we were home, about 5 mins later. He tells me he is feeling really scared, like things are watching him, he tells me he feels like this from time to time.
Within the next half hour his mood goes back to being what it was like before we started out in the morning.

Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to make sure I give an accurate picture of whats going on. Does any of this make sense to you guys?

I also just remembered just prior to one other episode he described feeling what sounded to me like de ja vu and feeling scared.

He has also said when questioned after wards that he gets so tired, his brain feels like it can't take anymore, he has used the words fuzzy and confused.

Just a few things you might want to check on:
1. Low blood pressure
2. Low blood sugar (hypoglycemia)
3. Vasovagal syncope

I have had problems with all 3 during my life. It doesn't sound like epilepsy to me because it does seem very situational, but I could be wrong.

It could be, and each should be checked out. But fainting (syncope) and low blood pressure would get better if he lay down, and he didn't, and hypoglycæmia if he had something to eat.
It still sounds like epilepsy to me, especially the paranoid feeling, crankiness, tiredness ect.
I wouldn't wait til June - could you have the neurologists appointment pushed forwards, as it seems to be happening a quite frequently? You could talk to your GP about blood pressure and blood sugar straight away.

It sounds quite frightening, really. It's awfull when thinhs like that happen, and you don't know why.

Please keep us filled in!

Hi thanks for the quick responses.

I don't believe it's hypoglycemia, he'd just eaten, and I suffer from this so I know the signs.

yesterday was the first time I had noticed he had his eyes closed, usually his eyes are open, with a spaced out look or rolled to the side and back.

You are describing epilepsy pretty perfectly. Stress and tiredness are known to cause seizures in people with epilepsy. However there are little things you can be glad for, like his brain feeling funny before it happens. That's an aura, and it gives him a to get somewhere safe before the big seizure comes on. The aura doesn't necessarily mean a big seizure is coming on though.

For example I had aura's somewhat frequently for a few years (I didn't know what they were, and though my mom did she refused to believe me, so nothing was done about it). I described mine as a funny feeling, outside my head and stomach that occured whenever my dreams came true. ("de ja vu" is another common aura) I wasn't feeling my head and stomach, but rather something about 5 inches out from that and felt weird and uncomfortable.

One day in 8th grade, I got my auro around first period, and just kept getting worse. But I was never one who liked to miss school so I was trying my best to deal with it. Finally in 3rd period, where I sat on a high stool in the shop for drafting class, it became nearly unbearable. Since we had sub, I decided it wouldn't hurt to miss class and I asked to go to the nurse. I must have been pretty out of it at the point, or immediately after, since two girls came running down the hall after me to walk me to the nurse. I walked into the door, which was a bit odd since it was a door you pulled open, and said "oops I walked into the door." The girls helped me open it, and I went in and calmly told the nurse about how I had been feeling funny, and she told me to lay down. I later learned she hadn't been able to understand a word I had said. I had three seizures that day, the first occuring shortly after I went to the nurse. I had stopped breathing and was unconcious for one of them (that's the kind of seizure you need immediate medical attention for or you'll die) but luckily the paramedics were already at school by the time that happen. From what I've been told, the first two were mainly just convulsions. The third one was where I was walking around punching the doctors at the hospital - if you've read the other thread you've probably read my description on that so I won't repeat it.


**it is important to not just document the times his seizures are happening but other things as well - ie are the lights on?recently turned off?/Are the lights flourescent?/ is it a very bright day?/is he sitting in a darkened area, but in sight of a well-lit area?/is he watching tv/playing games, is facing a wall with two different colored stripes?, Was he within sight of the flashing lights on a schoolbus/firetruck/police car?/Did someone just walk quickly past him (this can have the same result as flashing lights in highly susceptible people).

The big things to look for are exhaustion, stress, lights (natural as well as artificial), contrasting patterns

Absence seizures, last for a few moments, and typically are mistaken for the person being daydreaming. Other kinds of seizures allow the person to move about normally, though not in control of their actions. In that case, the person and the observer may both be unaware that a seizure has happened. If the seizure is in the temporal lobe the seizure may be mistake for things such as schizoprenia by the uneducated (luckily for me I had two convulsing seizures before I tried to beat up the doctors who were "torturing me with a giant drill.")

Check out www.epilepsyfoundation.org . Its the best organization to get information about epilepsy from

triangular trees is correct on Stress and tiredness are known to cause seizures in people with epilepsy. it is a big burnout. due to the issue i have to sleep 16 hours a day, 2 times a week to feel revived again sometimes. and sometimes even just crash all of a sudden

triangular trees hit the major issues.... and sent a very good link... but epilepsy isn't always grown out of...

what you need to specifically look up is parietal lobe seizures... this is part of what I have.... also occipital lobe seizures would be good for you to look up.

About the growing out of it thing, I was Dx'd when I was little. taken off meds and seen as fine from age 4 to age 18 then at age 18 i went through stress that brought them visibly out again. I've come to the conclusion after research that mine never went away, they just were not noticed.

edited to add a link http://www.med.nyu.edu/cec/epilepsy/types.html

Last edited by kit000003 on 30 Mar 2008, 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aurea, did you see the video of a man having a complex partial seizure under "first aid" (I think) on the link triangular tree added?
It looks much like what you describe.

kit000003 I think petit mal (abscence seizures) are often grown out of. I was told my son was growing out of his TLE - so please let me live in hope
But you are right, it might be partial complex seizures, not abscence seizures. My son has partial seizures, but mostly he goes wild, has rages/anxiety attacks/ deja vu. I've never seen his eyes roll or him space out, so I was thrown a little!

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

Lots of information. I watched the video and ummm it looks a lot like the guy and I often get the same look that the young girl near the end of the video gives. The look of confusion in her eyes.

We have an appointment with J's pead today I will talk to him about it all, maybe he can push us thru quicker.

J had a massive convulsion when he was 5 and a half months old, however that was put down to perhaps other medical stuff(he'd had a massive blood loss after surgery with no known reason) or the medications that he was on at the time (meds were given to stop the blood loss), now I wonder.

I will keep you all posted. Once again thank you all so much.

Triangular trees -
I know I've asked you some time ago... but I'm still confused!
My son has a focus in his right temporal lobe.
Could his seizures be confused with meltdowns - rage and anxiety attacks that start with a minor frustration, he would normally deal ok with, and proceed to something out of this world? Can an emotion trigger a seizure, or is it always the other way round?
Sometimes things seem to snowball. Before he was medicated, it was all the time, now there are months between, but I'm still confused about what his seizures actually look like.

Strong emotion can trigger seizures.

His seizures could also be confused with meltdowns (depending on the time of seizure he has). My older sister has told me about I a seizure I had when I was younger. I was hitting her and accusing her of stealing my sock. In between hitting her, I was trying to put said sock on overtop of my shoe and becoming increasingly angry, seemingly by the fact that my sock was fitting. I would think a seizure like that could be mistaken for a melt down, just as seizures that cause someone to zone out or wander around, without seeming to hear anything you say might also be mistaken for signs of a meltdown/shut down

I spoke with J's pead briefly. All he would say to me is he thinks I will find that most things come back to asperger's. So I guess I will just keep writing down what I see and wait for our June appointment. Thank you all again so much.

aurea: tell us what happens in June!
triangular trees: thanks. I think his last meltdown may have been a seizure. But it's so hard to tell!