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skafather84
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10 Apr 2008, 5:08 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Okay, then ... I think.

BTW the sodomy laws are like a restrictive curfew for gays, or is it more than that?


an offense you can be sent to jail for.


/heard a story of a jealous gay guy who called the cops on his gay crush while he was with another gay dude doing some gay stuff and the cops arrested him from within his own home. which is really gay.



DejaQ
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10 Apr 2008, 5:26 pm

You know, I've never been a fan of state-endorsed marriage. Normally I'd be against gay marriage (but also against straight marriage :P) with the argument that it should be a purely spiritual institution. However, I feel as long as the state endorses straight marriage, it is required to endorse gay marriage.

Churches, being separate from the government, can ban gay marriage all they want, but the government does not serve any one faith, so they must respect all lifestyles (within legal boundaries, as previous posters have mentioned).



Griff
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10 Apr 2008, 5:33 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Okay, then ... I think.

BTW the sodomy laws are like a restrictive curfew for gays, or is it more than that?
It was a felony offense in some states, a misdemeanor in others. The last of these laws weren't stricken down until 2003, when the Supreme Court invalidated them finally. It was ten years in my homestate of North Carolina. The worst I know of is Idaho, where it was five to life. These laws were not rendered ineffective until 2003, when Lawrence v. Texas completely invalidated them. Dude, these things were no joke, okay? They were evil. They were wrong.



MR_BOGAN
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10 Apr 2008, 5:39 pm

I don't have any problem with gay marriage. Doesn't bother me.

I think people that ague against gay marriage etc, probably have homosextual tendencies and they are affraid to face up to them.



slowmutant
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10 Apr 2008, 6:07 pm

Quote:
heard a story of a jealous gay guy who called the cops on his gay crush while he was with another gay dude doing some gay stuff and the cops arrested him from within his own home. which is really gay.


As gays and straights, here's one thing we definitely have in common: sexual jealousy. Not a good thing, not a positve, but nonetheless a reminder of our common humanity.



greenblue
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10 Apr 2008, 8:08 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Is debate welcome? I'm confused. :?

Always.


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LiendaBalla
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11 Apr 2008, 7:19 am

Griff wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Easy, Griff! Easy.
Look, man, I'm not in a big raving fit over YOU, and I really apologize for any impression that I may have given that I was.

Okay, let me explain: I'm really freaking out over these people who are going with the "crime against nature" theory on homosexuality. That mentality is just plain WRONG, and the results of it were horrible.


uhm.... I, for one, didn't even mention "crime' or "nature". 'sigh' right after my post... "You lost the battle..!" this and "You filth!" that. What did I do to diserve that? I didn't attack a single person in the thread at that point. I only mentioned what I heard in several church congregations. That's what they said to the attendies. Beleive that it happened or don't, it aint my problem.



DeaconBlues
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11 Apr 2008, 11:02 am

Lienda, I think what freaked Griff out was that one of the early posters, iamnotaparakeet, did cite "natural law" - that is, he claimed that human sexual organs were "obviously" designed for one and only one form of mating, derived from that a claim that using them in any other fashion was "immoral", then treated both assumptions as axioms, not needing proof.

Problem with that is that natural laws are called that because they are part of nature, woven into the very fabric of the universe, and are thus inviolable. Gravity is universally attractive; this is a natural law. Nothing can go faster than light in an Einsteinian plenum; this is a natural law. When free hydrogen and free oxygen are placed in close proximity and left to themselves, they will combine to make water; this is a natural law. You can interfere with the functioning of some laws with the application of others (using Bernoulli's principle and thrust to temporarily overcome gravitation, for instance), but none of the laws need enforcement, because, as they are natural, you can't break them.

It becomes plain, then, that if a "law" can be violated, it is not a "natural law", but either a misunderstanding of nature or a law of men. Same-sex preference tends to be selected against evolutionarily, but some studies indicate that the genetic complex leading to male homosexuality is probably carried in the mother's genes, thus it may not be eliminated by evolution. (In some species, in fact, it can provide a benefit. Among wolves, for instance, only the pack alpha gets to mate while he's present, so when a female goes into heat, the lower males must relieve their stresses with each other. Bonobo chimpanzees use all manner of sexual relations for group-bonding - among them, strict heterosexuality would result in ejection from the troop, and a single bonobo won't last long. Male dolphins use same-sex contact as a dominance game - the one who assumes the position generally held by a female during mating has submitted to the authority of the other one.)


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LiendaBalla
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11 Apr 2008, 3:34 pm

ahhh. Me see, my bad. *bows to deaconblues* I heareth thee, oh wise one. :D



pandabear
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21 Apr 2008, 5:35 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracles

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As symbol of masculinity and warriorship, Heracles also had a number of pederastic male beloveds. Plutarch, in his Eroticos, maintains that Heracles' eromenoi (male lovers) were beyond counting. Of these, the one most closely linked to Heracles is the Theban Iolaus. Their story, an initiatory myth thought to be of ancient origin, contains many of the elements of the Greek pederastic apprenticeship in which the older warrior is the educator and the younger his helper in battle. Thus, Iolaus is Heracles's charioteer and squire. In a notable testament to the closeness between the two heroes, Iolaus is also Heracles' symbomos, (altar-sharer). Unlike all other heroes and gods, each of whom had his or her own altar, sacrifices to either hero could be offered at one and the same altar.[10]

Also in keeping with the initiatory pattern of the relationship, Heracles in the end gave his pupil a wife, symbolizing his entry into adulthood. Iolaus's ritual functions paralleled his relationship with Heracles. He was a patron of male love—Plutarch reports that down to his own time, male couples would go to Iolaus's tomb in Thebes to swear an oath of loyalty to the hero and to each other[11]—and he presided over initiations in the historical era, such as the one at Agyrion in central Sicily.[12] The tomb of Iolaus is also mentioned by Pindar.[13]



Maxrebo
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21 Apr 2008, 5:59 pm

One thing is wrong in list when it said greece and rome gay sex happend in greece and rome alot and their is nothing wrong with that. If gays want to get married well good for them I belive marrige in genral is unatural do animals have fedelity no they do has many has possible for the survival. that an state sponsore marriage isn't evil because i am an athiest and I don't want to get married in a church. That I thank deconblue for mention to hated evengelical radicals trying to take away our right and increase the intensity of our therorcacy. That and since hitler i am pretty sure its a little bit eaiser to get into heaven if their is a bar because getting into heaven is like limbo and hitler raised the bar so only people who did somthing really horrible is condemned to hell like george w bush will be.


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Awesomelyglorious
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21 Apr 2008, 6:22 pm

Maxrebo wrote:
I belive marrige in genral is unatural do animals have fedelity no they do has many has possible for the survival.

Well, other animals are not the same as humans and they don't have the same psychological behaviors as humans do. Frankly, given the commonness of marriage within human society across cultures, the high costs per child that human beings have, and human possessiveness and other bonding issues, I would think that it is natural for human beings to marry. It is actually less natural for human beings to be strictly monogamous as most past societies had more polygamy, but the reason for the societal shift is thought to be based upon the relative equality of modern societies compared to past societies that had more harems and similar things.
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That and since hitler i am pretty sure its a little bit eaiser to get into heaven if their is a bar because getting into heaven is like limbo and hitler raised the bar so only people who did somthing really horrible is condemned to hell like george w bush will be.

Yeah, I doubt that Hitler really raised the bar that much. Vlad the Impaler was a ruler who would drink the blood of his foes, and who impaled so many people as to create an intimidating forest of impaled bodies that drove away his foes. Given the number of people who have practiced very terrible things throughout history, I don't think that Hitler really would have changed things. Really though, George Bush is not on the same level as Hitler and I think most rational people would agree if given the evidence.



Luther64
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06 Aug 2012, 1:15 pm

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17. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

16. Gay culture is a new fad created by the liberal media to undermine long-standing traditions. We know this is true because gay sex did not exist in ancient Greece and Rome.

15. There are plenty of straight families looking to adopt, and every unwanted child already has a loving family. This is why foster care does not exist.

14. Conservatives know best how to create strong families. That is why it is not true that Texas and Mississippi have the highest teen birthrates, and Massachusetts, Vermont, and New Hampshire have the lowest. This is a myth spread by the liberal media.

13. Marriage is a religious institution, defined by churches. This is why atheists do not marry. Christians also never get a divorce.

12. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why our society has no single parents.

11. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

10. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

9. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

8. Gay marriage should be decided by the people and their elected representatives, not the courts. The framers checked the courts, which represent mainstream public opinion, with legislatures created to protect the rights of minorities from the tyranny of the majority. Interference by courts in this matter is inappropriate, just as it has been every time the courts have tried to hold back legislatures pushing for civil rights.

7. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because "separate but equal" institutions are a good way to satisfy the demands of uppity minority groups.

5. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

4. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

3. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

2. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

1. METEORS and VOLCANOES.


17. Wrong. Anyone can tell that social norms change with each generation and all it takes is a look out your window to see that society is designed almost entirely around cars.

16. Right & wrong. Gay culture (acting camp, wearing purple, etc.) is just a fad that I have no interest in partaking in. However, I love my boyfriend and I am sexually attracted to him.

15. Wrong. First of all, this is very poorly written. I had to read it thrice to decipher the actual meaning behind it! Gay couples love each other just as much as straight couples do. I see no reason why gay couples who are capable of offering just as much love as straight couples are should be denied the right to adopt a child.

14. I fail to see how this relates to homosexual marriage in any way.

13. Wrong. My boyfriend's parents are atheists and they've been happily married for 19 years. I was once ashamed of being bisexual because god supposedly didn't want it but after being domestically abused for 13 years, it finally dawned on me that there probably is no god and even if there is, why should I obey a god who wants me to live a life of misery and repression?

12. Wrong again! The smartest kid in our school lives with 5 siblings and a single mother.

11. What? god (notice my deliberate use of a minor g when referring to god! Ha! Take that!) doesn't want me to be with the only person I've ever loved? Well, I say, f**k him and his dated religion. It really is sad that in this day and age, people still base their lives around a fictional book that's been around for thousands of years.

10. Absolutely WRONG, yet again! My parents were christians who said they would slit my throat if I "became a sinful fa***t."

9. Irrelevant. Homosexual parents who love their children and raise them to be responsible are better parents than straight ones who mercilessly beat their children day after day. The world needs more children?! In actuality, a population boom is the last thing the world needs.

TO BE CONTINUED...



Luther64
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06 Aug 2012, 1:50 pm

...IMMEDIATELY!

8. Wrong. Too large a percentage of the American population accounts for intolerant facists and religious nutjobs. No offence intended. Unless you are an intolerant facist or a religious nutjob.

7. Wrong. In what way would straight marriage be any less meaningful if homosexual marriage were allowed?

6. You say we are uppity? It seems to me like society is too uppity to admit that a civil partnership is just the same as a marriage. Stop beating about the bush and call it what it is.

2. From the moment I met Max, I fell in love with him. I have an instinctive desire to be with someone I love. If that isn't natural, I don't know what is.

5, 4, 3 &1. Sigh... so transparent. Pathetic, in fact. You couldn't think of any more legitimate arguments and decided to throw in some un-funny and/or offensive jokes. None of which would be worthwhile criticizing.

OP, if you posted this because you agree with it then you sir, obviously suffer from BCDD (brain cell deficit disorder). However, if you posted this in the hope that it would fall prey to ridicule, congratulations - you succeded! And wasted an hour of my life. :?



Last edited by Luther64 on 06 Aug 2012, 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TallyMan
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06 Aug 2012, 1:55 pm

Hmmmm. The thread was started 4 years ago! A few posts in someone states the facebook thing was a parody anyway.

:shrug:



Luther64
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06 Aug 2012, 2:08 pm

TallyMan wrote:
Hmmmm. The thread was started 4 years ago! A few posts in someone states the facebook thing was a parody anyway.

:shrug:


I'm sorry, I didn't even look at the date of the OP! Reading homophoebic statements such as those found in the listjust enrages me and the urge to retaliate clouds my logical judgement. I guess living in a severely homophoebic environment has made me very defensive.