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equinn
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13 Apr 2008, 3:57 pm

He was NOT scizophrenic! Oh, my--the incompetence of teachers is frightening.

Yes, he was disgusted that people could mark up the walls and have such little regard for each other. Again, he is hypersensitive and astute to the ills of the world. Most teeeanagers are thinking about sports, weekened parties, shoes, clothes, girlfriends etc., but he cares about the particulars and thinks everyone should think like he does.

I always related well to Holden.

Some colleagues have called Holden a "phony" and didn't agree that the was saintly.

I'm not one of those teachers--I saw more to him. I guess I understand him completely.

equinn



marshall
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13 Apr 2008, 5:49 pm

equinn wrote:
"I don’t think he's autistic because he doesn’t seem to have trouble partaking in social banter..."

It's all scripted and fake when he speaks. He memorizes what to say. EVerything is internal, his thoughts...

Asperger/HFA people CAN have social conversations, I had thought, because they learn how to say the right things in a somewhat timely manner-almost like actors. The problem is it is awkward at times and so people perceive them as "phony" and so this could be why Holden appeared "phony"...


The part I refer to that seems to rule out AS is the instance when he was on the train and talking to the mother of another kid from Princey Prep. The mother thought her child was this innocent shy kid while Holden knew him as a bully.

It really disturbed him that the mother didn’t even know her own child, yet he was still able to carry on a conversation with her by telling a bunch of BS. I don’t think someone with AS would be able to do that. I would have to either tell the mother that her kid was a jerk or just keep my mouth shut about it. In my case the latter would be the more likely outcome. I’m not capable of having a “fake” conversation with someone.

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He simply didn't fit into a NT world as hard as he tried. He was consumed with nuns eating dry toast and how this is saintly and how can he reconcile with the rest of us slobs eating regular food--steak and potatoes.

He thought he had to be the catcher, the protector of all young children so that they didn't fall off the side of the cliff. He carried the weight of the world on his shoulders.

This is not a personality disorder. He was beyond his years and astute in his observations of people and their motivations. Those that call him the "phony" don't truly understand his motives. He was suffering the sins of the people and he couldn't move forward. He couldn't relate to his peers because he was so far beyond them--like an old soul.

equinn


I can definitely relate to his thoughts in this aspect of the book. I also prefer the simplicity and openness of children over the contrived adult world. I think there is something to the notion that the most intelligent people in the world never truly “grow up”. You can see it in people like Einstein in how he despised dressing formally and often acted childish.



Sedaka
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13 Apr 2008, 6:30 pm

good book.

dunno what he's supposed to have........ but salinger is one hardcore old recluse.


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Sedaka
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13 Apr 2008, 6:37 pm

in highschool... we were given the assignment to write a fairytale as holden would... i was the only person who didnt take this to mean that i should just surmize a fairytale and throw in some curse words..

i got up, did a monologue as to why i didnt do my homework (after acting out some halfassed attempts of pretending like i did do the assignment)... and then had myself sent to the principle's office for possible expulsion due to not doing my homework AGAIN. was a great monologue... i got some award in school for it.

was my second time EVER... being able to stand up in front of people and effectively deliver something


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sartresue
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13 Apr 2008, 6:48 pm

When a body meet a body topic

In my first attempt at high school this was one of my books for grade 10(I was aged 15 years) and the teacher guided us ever-so-gently to the conclusion that Holden had a Messiah Complex and that he was an "emotionally disturbed" teenager. We also read A Canticle for Liebowitz but not in great detail and we were to compare and contrast the protagonists. Criticism and interpretation of these literary gems was limited to the format specified by the teacher. As I think back I did not care for Holden at the time but over the years I have been more drawn to him becauseI see some of my adolescent angst as similar to his, and yet I do not consider he or I to be typical, Aspie or not. We are all different. 8)


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