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Sophist
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13 Apr 2008, 8:16 pm

Yes, that sounds like the disconnect. It's like having a broken or slow processor... trying to translate images into words and vice versa. Poorly connected, underconnected, whatever.


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13 Apr 2008, 10:25 pm

Early reader, and have read too much.

I lack something for fine art, but do it anyway.

Some things are impossible to explain, between engineers or carpenters a bad drawing transmits what words cannot.

Even bad drawings have their limits, then numbers must be added.

I build things that work, which are an art. What does a barn mean?

There are before and after words and numbers. I fail to tell people what I am going to do, or after it is done, what it means. How it functions I can explain.

The problem is, vision, words, numbers are edge measurements, and they do not have the same tool box.

An aircraft has wings. They can be thick and large, or swept back and thin. It makes a huge differance.

Words lack the load factor, after the fact words and math can define why, but lack how, an aircraft only makes sense in relation to air and movement, the same for a boat hull, it can have great meaning, engineering, math, and still sink when launched.

I go by, "Art is something that causes an emotional response in the viewer."

Anyone who asks, has flunked. If I had been out to convey meaning, I would have written a short story.

Most things I do involve function, how close to the wind you can run with high wind and seas. It means staying alive. The meaning of aircraft is not flying, it is landing safely.

When doing things for others, I often have to ask, what do you want it to do? They never thought of that.

At my machine shop, show me a drawing, replaces conversation. Words are too imprecise. The drawing translates instantly. The same type of drawing shown to a hardware store clerk often draws a blank, he does not read that language.

Visual language, word language, math language, and I still do not understand meaning.



Sophist
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15 Apr 2008, 10:23 am

I agree, they really are different mediums, words and art.

However, I have noticed that other people who aren't autistic but still artists, that they have an easier time translating the art medium into the word medium and describing the process, telling why they did such-and-such. I can't seem to do that.

So even though they are two different languages in essence, I still notice there is something different between myself and all the other artists I'm surrounded by in that they seem to be better "translators".

Does that make sense?


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lemon
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15 Apr 2008, 12:18 pm

Sophist wrote:
Does anybody find this disconnect between their visual and language systems as well??? You don't necessarily have to be an artist to answer; it was just more precise to my situation.


Absolutely !
Not only in art (although in art it has always been extremely clear to me)
but also in any visual domain/area
little example 'a year' is like a monopoly game, winter is at a particular place and is darker.

Sophist wrote:
It's like ideas that aren't in language, until finally, one at a time, I find words for them.

Does anybody feel like words are one's second language sometimes?


Yeah, that's how i'd put it too
I'm also completely unable to understand a text if the words have no 'connection' with a visual image,
so when studying i first need to remember all the new words, what they are actually pointing to, before i can start to understand.

Some text/people are completely unintelligible cause they say things that have no real 'sense',
a little example
My art teacher said "you have to go to the limits of your art"
which does not mean anything for me, cause what are these 'limits' (that he could not describe, it was something i had to 'feel' ?! )

Now if people ask me about my art, i tell them that i invite them in my visual world, and that my art is the only place where i am not obligated to translate myself. other than that i can talk for hours about the colours, the shapes, the technical aspects, the paint, etc


I'd also like to learn to create a system to communicate more in a visual way, on the internet i use a lot of images, pictures, smileys, etc, maybe there could be tricks to do this even more and also not only on the internet.



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15 Apr 2008, 2:00 pm

Words are often my third or forth functioning language.

The first disconnect is they are the first and only for most.

I find words lack the ability to define, then I am dealing with people who lack a vocabulary.

I am more at home with blueprints.

A model airplane had instructions in many languages. The main structural member, the wing spar, from spar as used in sails, was written in Chinese as two images, a butterfly and a tree.

Flying tree part, does not have the same meaning as load bearing member which transmits the force of the air on the sail to the mast which transmits it to the keel.

The Chinese copy other peoples designs, because of their language.

I see function and applications. Going to the edge of your art has a different meaning to me.

The edges of boat design are a flat bottom, the barge, and a dagger blade reaching deep in the water.

Both displace exactly the same amount of water. Function and application define the choice within that range.

Being mechanical, my best drawing art is not art, but it shows the mechanical, the badly drawn tree means a tree goes here.

Words only people want everything in words. Most of living does not translate into words.

The Patent Office had a bit to say about words. Descriptions are to be in words of art, words as used by people knowledgable in that particular field. They sugggest reading the prior art, and sticking with the defining words in use in the field.

Words of Art, in Patent terms, have a very narrow meaning.

To describe something, that has never existed before, first thing needed for a patent, clearly enough that a person well practiced in the field could do it, explaining it as preferred embodyment, this example, as structure, then again as function, than again as compared to the known, and finally the claim, marking ground not before covered.

First it is defined by borders, limits, in the last it is defined by open space.

It can take months to describe one little thing, and then it would only be understood by a Patent Examiner, or someone else in the field.

The same product is instantly understood by a young child. They grasp the function.

There have been attempts at universal language, Esperanza, they failed. There was a symbolic language developed by auto companies, as related to service and repair. It worked, but was dropped because Americans could not understand it.

Most of the world was shown to be more visual in thinking, the natural state of being and doing.

Those that rule, manipulate, use words, those that do use pictures.

Our advances seem to be all visual, tool making, seeing the cycle of the year, planting crops, seeing the complex tool, the machine, that can process much faster than a human.

A visual language would be both exact in meaning, and broad, and would be unreadable to the prisoners of words. I think children would adopt it over words.

Both the Chinese and Mayans had functional pictographic language, Emoticons show the need for something beyond words. Mayans mixed art and caligraphy, where a painting was something to read.

Something to think about.



ddrapayo
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15 Apr 2008, 2:04 pm

I just make up some elaborate explanation that isn't true. Inside, I know the truth, and I make those NT's happy at the same time. They think I'm a genius, and I am, just not for the reasons they think I am. But it isn't important what they think, it's important what's really true.



lemon
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21 Apr 2008, 3:16 pm

:D

ddrapayo wrote:
They think I'm a genius, and I am, just not for the reasons they think I am.
:D



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21 Apr 2008, 3:27 pm

lemon wrote:
but also in any visual domain/area
little example 'a year' is like a monopoly game, winter is at a particular place and is darker.


Interesting. For me, a year is a series of strung blocks, each block a month. And there's a big dark dividing line between the December of one year and the January of the next. The blocks of June, July, and August are large blocks. December is a similar size at the summer blocks, but November is also somewhat larger, as are September and May.

The week is similar, with weekends being larger and also having some vertical height to them. Wednesday is also larger than the other weekdays, but smaller than the weekends.

I don't know what winter is. More a color, no place to it except superimposed upon my block calendar. Winter is gray (big surprise). Spring is clear, summer is yellow, and fall is... hmm, not sure what fall is. Probably brown.


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lemon
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21 Apr 2008, 3:46 pm

lemon wrote:
but also in any visual domain/area
little example 'a year' is like a monopoly game, winter is at a particular place and is darker.


Sophist wrote:
Interesting. For me, a year is a series of strung blocks, each block a month. And there's a big dark dividing line between the December of one year and the January of the next.



:-o
that is really interesting, i have this dark dividing line too !


Sophist wrote:
The blocks of June, July, and August are large blocks. December is a similar size at the summer blocks, but November is also somewhat larger, as are September and May.


yeah exactly ! ! how is this possible? that's so great !



Sophist wrote:
The week is similar, with weekends being larger and also having some vertical height to them. Wednesday is also larger than the other weekdays, but smaller than the weekends.


yeah but weeks are less irregular than the months of the years, days look much more the same then months do, you can also easily 'jump' from one day to another. but special days are different, some days have something like a video in them, like the day of a festival,
or a funeral, etc.
there are also arrows for certain expressions like 'the day before yesterday'
and normally a week stands alone, but when it is about more weeks then the others are less solid, less coloured and attached to the one we are in.


Sophist wrote:
I don't know what winter is. More a color, no place to it except superimposed upon my block calendar. Winter is gray (big surprise). Spring is clear, summer is yellow, and fall is... hmm, not sure what fall is. Probably brown.


the colours of the seasons are not very pronounced, but that also depends on what the light is like at the actual day, some days are so bright that it shines on the seasons.