Practical social solution for schools and colleges

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ascan
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13 Oct 2005, 3:18 pm

Indeed, very astute, eamonn.

From a back-slapping thread:

ghotistix wrote:
TASH FAK - a comic genius with extensive knowledge of quality music
Bec - mostly because we seem to have a lot in common
Vetivert - Vivi's just a splendiferous witch
Mockingbird - is great to talk with
techstepgenr8tion - has got a level head on his shoulders


Eamonn, you are now fully forgiven for your past transgressions :wink: .



ascan
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13 Oct 2005, 3:26 pm

So, who disciplines moderators??



eamonn
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13 Oct 2005, 3:33 pm

No probs Ascan, our political convictions might be different but i do agree with some of your principles. The need for consistency in rules and their application being one of them. Alas where human's are concerned i dont think this will be likely to every happen in governments or private internet sites. :wink:



vetivert
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13 Oct 2005, 3:52 pm

d'you know, i had half a response ready, and then realised that, whatever i say, someone will pick holes in it. so, i've decided just to give my perspective. if people think i'm lying or have an ulterior motive, that's up to them.

a) there is no clique on WP, of which i am aware (and i think i'd probably notice).
b) i didn't think i did this "backslapping" business - feel free to correct me on that one.
c) mods are chosen by consensus, not by nepotism, and - more to the point - by a general majority decision.
d) the "defence" in the instance quoted above is of a decision, not of a person.

my perspective, not a debate. buggered if i do, buggered if i don't, so i might as well...



ascan
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13 Oct 2005, 4:35 pm

vetivert wrote:
..mods are chosen by consensus, not by nepotism, and - more to the point - by a general majority decision....

Of mods?

Forming a clique, perhaps?

Look, you're all human, I wouldn't expect you (the moderators in general) to behave perfectly, but if your authority is to carry any credibility, you shouldn't use it to further your own personal ends, or that of the central clique, as appears to have happened in this thread. Where that does occur, you should be acting to prevent it re-occuring.

And that's not a go at you, vetivert, coz generally speaking, and considering your political views are at the other end of the spectrum to mine, you are usually remarkably tolerant of what I have to say.



eamonn
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13 Oct 2005, 4:43 pm

Humans are generally biased towards the people they like and this site is no different I would have thought a psychologist would have realised that, particularly one with a condition that put's them at a disadvantage socially in the first place. I sometimes butter up my words to get people on side IRL but on an aspie site i dont feel i should have to, just not insult people outright which is a different thing.

Oh i did notice that you didnt contribute towards the backslapping threads vetivert though your name does appear many times on the list of this 'clique'. I dont think this is an attack on anyone just me being honest about the way i feel. Pretty much everyone has their own agenda, that is life im afraid and i can at least admit to myself that i stick up for my friends and wouldnt be the best adjudicator as far as situations involving them are concerned because personal feelings are involved and i wouldnt want to upset them by going against them.

Once again i have no complaints about the moderating done in this instance, i just feel it could be done more stringently across the board as far as im concerned and feel it is the usual suspects from the backslapping threads that always jump to defend each other. Im not even talking about this thread particularly, just a pattern that i have noticed.



Last edited by eamonn on 13 Oct 2005, 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eamonn
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13 Oct 2005, 4:55 pm

vetivert wrote:

my perspective, not a debate. buggered if i do, buggered if i don't, so i might as well...


Id like to know what you meant by that? Im slightly autistic so youll need to spell it out to me im afraid.



pyraxis
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13 Oct 2005, 5:24 pm

ascan wrote:
So, who disciplines moderators??


Admins, and the site owner (Alex). Yes, we've got a feudalistic system here, but such is the nature of a privately-owned forum.

I've got no interest in entering the original debate in this thread, nor do I have any particular personal loyalty to the people involved. However, I'd suggest that if people want to start a debate about the moderation of this site, you do it in a new thread, and let this one return to the original question of the pros/cons of assigned companions in college.



eamonn
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13 Oct 2005, 6:02 pm

Some schools have 'befriender' things for first years where older pupils are supposed to keep an eye-out for them but the results usually arent that consistent. I think it would work sometimes but there would most likely end up a shortage of people willing to give up their social time to benefit aspies. It would be worth a try.

Personally id have too much pride to go on any 'befriender' scheme even if i was the biggest outcast of the campus but im sure it would be worth a try for some who are less stubborn about how friendships came about than me. I dont think this should be limited to just females only though, you should get a 'friend' that is willing and with a decent attitude whether they are female or male.



Ante
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13 Oct 2005, 6:12 pm

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bec
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13 Oct 2005, 6:47 pm

Ante, you are adding 2 plus 2 and getting 5. That was not an indirect personal attack. I wasn't even thinking of you personally when I made that post, I was just making a generalisation.

I don't think you are a baby. I don't think you are more disabled than I. I don't think you are inferior to me. It would be stupid for me to even think those things because I don't know you personally. For all I know, you could be a social butterfly compared to me.

I was only expressing my opinions of your position, and you asked for others' opinons. I was attacking the position, not the person. I am very sorry that I made you upset, but I am not sorry for my opinions, stance, or argument on the matter.



Ante
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14 Oct 2005, 1:11 am

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ascan
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02 Nov 2005, 3:04 am

pyraxis wrote:
Admins, and the site owner (Alex). Yes, we've got a feudalistic system here, but such is the nature of a privately-owned forum.



pyraxis wrote:
... nor do I have any particular personal loyalty to the people involved.


There seems to be at least one extra person in this thread who now has moderator after their name! You know, the first statement above is all well and good, but the second is delusional.

Just an observation. No offence intended. :)



DancesWithDemons
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04 Nov 2005, 3:25 pm

I'm going to be entering college in January '06, and I'm pretty apprehensive about the whole situation. As if having AS weren't enough to deal with, I'm also a "non-traditional student" in that I'm in my mid 30's.

The idea of having a DF may be an appealing one to some, but I personally would rather someone befriend me based on something within my own personality that they find appealing. The idea of having a friend who is a friend based solely on the fact that they are assigned that task just doesn't set well with me. I trust that this will not be the case at my new school.

If I can't make friends based on my own merits, then it's their loss, not mine......



CDRhom
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19 Nov 2005, 3:25 pm

I would relax a bit, Dances. As a non traditional student (and when you look around your classes you will find you are one of many) you are actually freed from some of the problems of traditional students, like it being your first time away from home. Your first time without supervision, and feeling reluctant to leave your old friends who may have come to college with you to make new ones.

I've found that making friends is college is easier than most other places (if you can get past your shyness) because you are in classes for a major you (hopefully) like meaning that you and your classmates have a common interest. You will start seeing the same faces over and over again, and small study groups are a structured but non threatening way to get aquainted. Often you are assigned to group projects, also giving you a chance to meet people in a low intensity environment.

Good Luck!


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Quintucket
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19 Nov 2005, 8:32 pm

Couple comments.
I agree completely with Bec on her initial response.

Requisite buddying does not a friendship make.

At my school we have a voluntary "Best Buddies" program. Quite a difference from a requirement though. Bec's completely right about resentment, and it's not at all selfish.
A draft of any type is time theft.

At my school there are basically three levels of SPED student.

High functioning, at least comparatively, as with myself (normal classes, still a fair amount of outside work), moderate functioning (normal classes, but barely, need more time to take classes), and low functioning (Downs' Syndrome, brain damage, separate classroom).

The high functioning students generally can cope with neurotypicals, although I notice that generally AS diagnosed kids hang out with kids with ADHD, nerds, geeks, "delinquents" and such. We know and like the other SPED students, but don't spend much time with them.

The medium functioning students also can cope with neurotypicals and have a few as friends, but also tend to hang out with each other a lot, and with the low functioning students.

The low function students hang out with each other, and with a few neurotypical, social activist, yet non-overachiever girls, who like them as a parent likes their kids, and both groups seem to be fine with this.

In my experience, social skills groups with other High School are quite productive.
In elementary school I knew some kids who were somewhat nasty to me, yet in a covert way. I learned afterwards that my mother knew their mothers, and their mothers therefore knew that I had issues. Hmm. . . In some such cases the kids were nice to me, in fact in the majority, but still, I'd rather have people like me for who I am, not because I'm obligated to.

And I would not be good as an aid to kids at a lower functioning level than me. I've worked with little kids with AS, but they're still fairly high level.

So yeah, basically I agree with Bec and then some.

Also, with the moderator issue.

I've been to a number of forums.
Most of them the mods were [can't say]s and I left immediately.
Only on two before this one did I ever stay. And I've had two very different experiences on those forums.

The first was at first similar to this one. As it got filled with trolls, idiots, and spammers, the mods refused to take any action. So it digressed. Then the mods started taking action, but considered one forum really out of bounds for punishment. This was where these newcomers hung out. So the older, more well behaved players got disciplined for complaining about the idiots. (In an inappropriate manner of course, I thus always avoided being warned)
These mods also almost all came from one faction on the forum. Eventually, I left that forum completely. Several of the mods had already left for the same reason, and others were sympathetic to my reasons. This was privately though, and private opinion was different from actual policy.

The second is full of people of well above average quality. This, like the first, was attached to a simple web game. The difference, think, is that this webgame is fairly complex, and yet requires a fair amount of imagination to play, and the admin is somewhat strict about the rules at times. The mods rarely need to exercise power, and when they do they generally come to an understanding with the players. There have been two locked accounts, and both players have since returned and behaved better.

This forum is somewhat intermediate between the early first forum and current second.
There are some people whose posts are a pain to read, but what they says when I decipher it makes sense. Likewise there are some people whose posts strike me as rather inane, but I can still understand where they're coming from usually (I've observed maybe three people here who seem to be somewhat trollish{four if you count me, my tone seems to annoy some people}, but are still relatively reasonable compared to your average troll). The mods are fairly lenient and sensible within the rules, and do more talking and less moderating than in the first forum. The issue, as with the first forum, is with the rules, which I think are a bit more restrictive than I'd like (I've noticed that the restriction on genuine speech in a forum seems to be in inverse proportion to the sophistication of discourse, but this could be tail wags dog), but in this case I can see why. There are many people here who have clearly had pretty nasty lives even by neurotypical standards, and when one has AS well. . .
So anywhen, I forget my ultimate point (I do this a lot), but I hope that my minor points are at least clear.


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