Innocent people being accused of trolls

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See, I've seen a lot of ephemerella's posts. I've seen some KOR's posts, but I don't always understand them. Ephemerella talks the way I think, so her's are easier for me to understand. Either way, I see what you are saying because I don't get how people seem to misunderstand ephemerella, probably the same way you don't see how we misunderstand KOR.

I personally don't think ephemerella attacks people verbally. Sometimes, I'm like, that was kinda harsh, but it needed to be said. Other than that, I don't see why people portray her the way they do.

But I realized she does something a lot that I do. Talks with a bunch of "you's." Sometimes, I see her do what I do. Switch from talking directly to you, the person I'm responding to, to talking in 2nd perspective where it's not to you but can easily be replaced with I, one, anyone, a man, etc. I really think that's how people misunderstand both of us in many cases. I've been really trying to remove the word "you" from my vocabulary (with exceptions like telling my kids I love them of course).

thanks to cosmiccat and CanyonWind for the comments!

ephemerella,
it's 'she',not 'he',and have not slandered anyone-what have said was as true as own eyes and others have seen it,have never attacked ephemerella [or anyone else],or posted false smears,what was posted by self towards am and other users are classed as rule breaks,try learning the forum rules like everyone has to.

Well, I think KOR is sweet, too. That doesn't mean I have to not say anything if I disagree with what she says.

I mean, it's one thing to think someone is sweet and like their posts and another thing to agree with them when they put up a post saying you did stuff you didn't do. Frankly, I don't think she was trying to bash me, but I assume she was repeating gossip, like I said in an earlier post above.

All I did was post telling her that what she said was wrong and why. I didn't say anything negative about her (except maybe calling her "he").

And if I like someone's tone generally, that doesn't mean I'll back them up when they start posting accusations about others, either.

I mean above, someone criticized me for criticizing a Spokane Girl post based on a negative personal judgment I'd made about her after she injected herself into a bullying thread. How is what KOR did, jumping in with personal accusations against me, for behavior I didn't engage in, any better? All I did in bumping this thread was to say that posting a troll thread about another member was in my opinion a kind of bullying because it's dehumanizing. If KOR felt she could post a list of offenses she alleges I engaged in, which I didn't, in response to my bumping the thread, how is that good?

It doesn't matter to me if KOR is sweet or not. I'm not going to argue that she is generally sweet. That still doesn't mean I can't point out when her comments about me contained falsehoods.

Oh come on. You've seen through your own eyes that I tried to get someone thrown off the forum. And the other things you said. BS. And DeanFoley tried to argue that the things he said I did were true, but then he quit trying to argue with me, because I was posting links to show he was the one actually doing those things, not me.

Yeah, KOR, you're sweet. You were also posting false smears about me.

I'm already over being angry about that. I think people should let go of judging me for responding back and defending myself from the things you posted. As if that is a bad thing to do.

A lot of the problem is that I talk AT people instead of WITH people, and that hasn't changed yet. It might change if I get more interested in relationships. But I have more interest in ideas than other people, unfortunately. So often I don't really think about what the other person might experience when I speak. That's part of my Asperger syndrome.

Mostly, what people don't like on this forum is any talk of AS as a gift, or of the traits as anything other than an impaired, disabled condition. So what is okay is the low-functioning and psychologically distressed talk, and these-are-the-traits talk, but what isn't okay is how cool it is to have this triat or how one can achieve great functioning by developing that trait.

The "I'm-disabled, I'm psychologically abnormal" perspective of the threads is dominated by the low-functioning AS and the young male Asperger types dominate the social atmosphere. There really aren't a lot of high functioning people who are outspoken on this site and who are actively on here. I think that there are a lot who lurk occasionally and post comments when they see something of high functioning interest, and there are probably some who are comfortable with the low-functioning, emotional-problems emphasis here. But there aren't that many people coming here anymore, because it's just not that interesting on all levels, just a couple of levels.

So when people like me show up, I stick out and don't fit in. I think that maybe if the bandwidth opens up a little, there will be more visitors but currently the place is really kind of dead. Then deviants like myself, who like my Asperger syndrome and keep trying to cope with the bad aspects of it, won't be so annoying to the LF types who currently find me so offensive.

I wish they didn't find me offensive, because I like their posts as much as anyone else's. But they do.

Ephermerella, I didn't stop becaue you apparently proved me wrong. I stopped because you believe you are divinely right and keep putting words in my mouth. There was little point. No matter what I say or do, you will always acuse me of something ridiculous like attacking you and post a bunch of straw-men's to try and support yourself. There was absolutely no point in continuing. You will always think you are correct and that I am attacking you. You will always twist everything I say or just make some more rubbish up and say I attacked you with it.

Even now you're acting like you completely know what I think. But hey, I should have expected it really. Your arrogance astounds me sometimes .

EDIT: We're not ''low-fuctioning'' and the majority of people on here think AS is a gift. No one is trying to thought police you back into line. I'm just sick and tired of you attacking me then saying that I've in fact attacked you, and that a bunch of low-functioning young males with ''sensitive ego's'' are out to get you.

Last edited by DeanFoley on 24 Mar 2009, 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So I re-read through posts by myself, ephemerella, kingdom of rats, and dean foley with three things in mind.

1.

2.


3.


Here's what I've come up with that can be construed as a rule breaker... I do reiterate CAN BE, meaning I'm not saying it is a rule breaker but can be construed as such by a reader, not just myself. Also, rules being WP Conduct

Kingdom of Rats, when you wrote this post:


It really sounds like you could be possibly accusing ephemerella of those things only because you quoted ephemerella and typed this response. It can be taken two ways. One, you are just adding to what she said. Two, you are accusing her of these things without flat out stating it. Considering all the drama spoken about later in the subject concerning a locked thread, it can be easy for one to assume you meant it to be the second option. If it were an accusation, that would be considered behavior intended to provoke.

I also want to point out that when Ephemerella defended herself, she was very clear that she only meant it to be IF you were accusing her, and she also made it clear if you weren't accusing her of anything to disregard her defense. She repeatedly did so.

Also, you said,

Again, it sounds like you are gearing that at ephemerella by calling her prejudiced without flat out saying it.

But if you didn't mean it like that, then you might want to consider making it more clear. It really seems like a sneaky way to attack someone without actually attacking them if you did mean it like that. That would fall under "behavior" that provokes and belittles members.


Ephemerella, I can't be biased here, but technically you did in your defense after being provoked stating it is only your defense in that case....



Speak about a locked thread.

And,
made a verbal attack/provoke with


and,

That's kinda mean too and more personal sounding than subject.

Dean Foley, here's some of the things you've said...






See here, we got some behavior to provoke and belittle as well as some personal attacks. In fact, I can't seem to find in this thread (so I'm assuming you are referring to previous threads) where you attack her opinion more so than her as a person.

I don't think ANY OF YOU GUYS and GALS meant it to be like that, so that's the only reason why I'm bringing it up. If I really thought you were being rude just to be rude, I wouldn't have wasted my time. I just really think this is a communication problem more than anything else. I also think ephemerella handled, most of the time, her defense with poise and diplomacy. Most of her posts were saying, "If you think I am like this, I'm not. This is how I really am." There's nothing trollish about that at all.

So not to lose context, as I've taken all of you guys out of context, we are dealing more with a difference of opinion mixed with a possible personal bias/defensive nature to it all.

Ephemerella,

Probably one reason that a lot of the vocal people on WP are very negative about their AS is that at least initially, many people come to WP for support and help. Once they begin to feel better about themselves, about their lives with AS, they don't feel like they need the site so much anymore, and they either leave or become less vocal. The ones who really really need the help, the ones who need the social interaction afforded by this particular online forum, they're the ones who will continue to lurk and post here. They're the ones who are more likely to feel depressed or negative, otherwise they won't feel a need to be here. I feel like I fit in the category in my second sentence, as there are times when I feel a bit lonely and I lurk and post here more often, but other times I don't feel like I need WP so much, so I stop for several months at a time. I try to give uplifting but realistic advice to folks, and sometimes they respond well to that and sometimes they don't, and there's only so much any one person, not just me or you, can do in many cases. Also, over time I've come to realize that oftentimes it won't matter exactly what I say or even how I say things, the other person won't be convinced of my point of view. Oftentimes it's because a lot of the logical reasoning and analyses are dependent on our own personal experiences. If one has a very diverse personal experience, the more likely that one will be able to understand another person's reasoning and point of view. If you're talking to somebody without that experience, or who weighs one particular terrible experience much more heavily than the rest of his or her experiences, no amount of rational thinking is going to convince him or her otherwise, as they simply don't believe your logic... and the best one can do in that scenario is to say one's piece and then let it fall however it falls. I know it sucks and for a long time I refused to accept that, but there isn't a choice, unfortunately.

I have read some of the things you have said before about the young male AS group-think, and while I think there are definitely some merits in your reasoning, the idea is never going to be accepted by those whom you accuse as being a part of that group-think, one of the reasons being that they don't have the experience to see things from your point of view, outside of the group. It's kind of like telling a teenager, "you just don't know better and you don't know how real life is." Well yeah, speaking as a 30-year-old, I can say from my point of view that teenagers think they know everything but they really don't. But I'm not doing a service to them by saying it, because they would never believe it and I just come off as a dominant prick (and I'm well aware having typed this that some readers will take offense, but it does work in both directions), no matter how well intentioned I may be. That being said, I don't think this is an issue unique to the "young male AS group," this is an issue for AS folks in general and NTs in general and youth in general, in general it's people who don't have the breadth and depth of knowledge and experience to see things more objectively. And people can only do that by being willing to learn and experience things outside of what one has normally done, and actually spending time doing that instead of mere cursory efforts. So a lot of times our efforts are more efficiently used by directing them somewhere else, and perhaps hoping that the other people (whether it be the young male AS group, you, me, NTs, everybody) will turn around one day. Nothing else anybody can do.

Ephemerella, I generally enjoy reading your posts and feel enlightened when you are willing to share the conclusions you have made from your own personal experiences, and I hope you continue to do that. You have already acknowledged that you have a tendency to talk at people instead of discussing with people, and I don't feel a need to elaborate on that any further. I'm glad that you have sufficient introspection and humility to acknowledge that, and I hope for everybody's own sake that everybody can do that as well.

ephemerella,
yes,it was towards am on Soras' thread,and being told to get off the forum is not the exact words that were used,but that is the message the entire post gave off strongly-was saying exactly what am allowed to go on WP as an LFA,which by the end of the list,was very little,it took the long way around to say 'f-off,this is HF territory'.

no,it isnt a bad thing to defend self,but read through own posts on this thread and will notice it's not just defending but also attacking and baiting-and lots of assumptions about someone do not know.
am may not be able to explain self well,through own problems with language so this may have caused some misunderstanding,but that is no excuse for the s****y treatment.

>edit.
been waiting to edit for a while as it went onto the high bandwith page.

Tantybi,
thanks for the input! prefer knowing about any mistakes have made so can at least learn from them and will admit where wrong.


re.prejudice...
am come across prejudice very often online-and offline so wasn't just thinking of ephemerella,experience a lot worse off support staff.

Technically speaking I'm high functioning, because I don't need to be institutionalized, or have someone come in to help with the tasks of daily living (I'm pretty good at boiling water on my own ).

It bugs me sometimes when various members assume that I'm low functioning, or a whiner, or biased in some way (not sure if I'm putting this right), when the research I've read usually gives an employment rate for high functioning autists of about 10%, compared to about 50% for disabled people in general, and about 70% for the general population. And then if I tell disability activists outside the autism world I'm high functioning they assume I don't have any real problems.

I wish people would remember to keep an open mind about what life is like for others on the site. We all have different experiences, and, among other things, this affects how comments sound to us.

KoR, which was the thread where you thought you were being made to feel unwelcome? (If I've got that right)

I'm male, but I ain't young, and a lot of aspie and autistic females are doing the best they can and finding life very difficult.

It might be better to leave age and gender out of this.

You're no whiner. I do not see any indication of bias in your posts.

I am not comfortable at this time commenting overly much on "functioning" levels because some see it as an excuse to imply that some members ought not involve themselves in particular kinds of conversation, and I want nothing to do with encouraging such discrimination (which I know you personally are not involved in), even incidentally or accidentally.

It really upsets me that some members have been made to feel discriminated against on the basis of functioning level at WP of all places.

Agrees!
in some of those disability communities they can be ignorant towards the spectrum,functioning is mostly a matter of IQ and communication ability in the offline world,so that describes nothing about the true experience and level of difficulty someone can have with their ASD,people see LF and assume burden to society,almost non functional...people see HF and assume perfectly able to do anything NTs can,and able to live without support-if ASD worked like that half this forum would be full of users with bedsores on arses from being so non functional and the other half would all be getting rich off their abilities.
Those dis. activists should have gotten to know self before assuming they know what life is like.



--
The thread was started by Sora-on the general autism board,not too long ago...but not this week either,sorry,have never been able to remember title.

Quoting KOR:

That is priceless KOR. Brilliant!

*applauds tantybi*

I must say - very impressed at the change in communication on everyone's behalf.


M.

agrees with the above. ^