Mecca Saudi Arabia
29 Apr 2008, 4:34 am
Muslims are only allowed in Makka because of some distorted interpretation where kaffirs aren't allowed in the holy land (Salla allahu al-salafiyya...right?).
Statistically, non-muslims do not live in Saudi Arabia, despite the fact that many non-muslim immigrants work in Jiddah or elsewhere in KSA. However, they're not allowed citizenship.
I was told I should move to Saudia by a friend of mine. Yeah, hold the plane while I put on my thawb and ghutra.
In all honesty, I can see why they are not allowed inside Mecca, since I know of other religions keeping non-believers from entering their sacred temples. But the fact that KSA exempts citizenship to non-muslims is a bit absurd.
skafather84 wrote:
same reason muslims can't go to israel.
religion is nothing but a breeding ground for ignorance, stupidity, violence, bigotry, and enslavement.
religion is nothing but a breeding ground for ignorance, stupidity, violence, bigotry, and enslavement.
Woah there...Muslims are allowed into Israel. Who told you that lie?
29 Apr 2008, 8:45 am
Non-Muslims are also not allowed inside Medina. It's something I've always questioned, and found answers in incidents such as when a certain Zoroastrian-influenced sect dumped corpses into the Zam Zam well and stole the black stone (a meteor which is believed to have come from heaven. Muslims believe it will judge people's polytheistic views in the day of judgement. This sect is responsible for breaking the stone). Even so, many non-Muslims entered Mecca by pretending to be Muslims. I personally have no view, I've never gone to Mecca or Medina or Jerusalem.
The KSA is an absurd country, ruled by Wahaabists. If you must know, Wahaabism is the form of Islam adopted by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. It has extremist interpretations. A decade ago, the KSA didn't allow anyone to become a citizen. Now, Muslims can become citizens. In 1959, the KSA abolished slavery. The KSA is a century behind the rest of the world when it comes to political factors. However, the law prohibiting non-Muslims from entering the two holy cities is of Quranic origin, not Wahaabi.
I don't know what this topic has to do with Persian Jews, however, I'd like to note that Jews in Iran are ideal citizens, and are 100% anti-Zionist. That's why they're still in Iran. That's why they're treated with respect by the Iranians. Muslims are not Nazis.
29 Apr 2008, 2:00 pm
Khan_Sama wrote:
the black stone (a meteor which is believed to have come from heaven. Muslims believe it will judge people's polytheistic views in the day of judgement.
That sounds odd. The kaaba was a shrine of the polytheistic Bedouin tribes before Muhammed introduced Islam. Each tribe had its own rock, and that particular rock gained special significance for representing Allah, the moon god and chief deity of the Bedouin pagan religion. Not denying that that's what Muslim's believe, it just seems odd given the history of the stone.
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30 Apr 2008, 2:20 am
Khan_Sama wrote:
Non-Muslims are also not allowed inside Medina. It's something I've always questioned, and found answers in incidents such as when a certain Zoroastrian-influenced sect dumped corpses into the Zam Zam well and stole the black stone (a meteor which is believed to have come from heaven. Muslims believe it will judge people's polytheistic views in the day of judgement. This sect is responsible for breaking the stone). Even so, many non-Muslims entered Mecca by pretending to be Muslims. I personally have no view, I've never gone to Mecca or Medina or Jerusalem.
The KSA is an absurd country, ruled by Wahaabists. If you must know, Wahaabism is the form of Islam adopted by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. It has extremist interpretations. A decade ago, the KSA didn't allow anyone to become a citizen. Now, Muslims can become citizens. In 1959, the KSA abolished slavery. The KSA is a century behind the rest of the world when it comes to political factors. However, the law prohibiting non-Muslims from entering the two holy cities is of Quranic origin, not Wahaabi.
I don't know what this topic has to do with Persian Jews, however, I'd like to note that Jews in Iran are ideal citizens, and are 100% anti-Zionist. That's why they're still in Iran. That's why they're treated with respect by the Iranians. Muslims are not Nazis.
The KSA is an absurd country, ruled by Wahaabists. If you must know, Wahaabism is the form of Islam adopted by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. It has extremist interpretations. A decade ago, the KSA didn't allow anyone to become a citizen. Now, Muslims can become citizens. In 1959, the KSA abolished slavery. The KSA is a century behind the rest of the world when it comes to political factors. However, the law prohibiting non-Muslims from entering the two holy cities is of Quranic origin, not Wahaabi.
I don't know what this topic has to do with Persian Jews, however, I'd like to note that Jews in Iran are ideal citizens, and are 100% anti-Zionist. That's why they're still in Iran. That's why they're treated with respect by the Iranians. Muslims are not Nazis.
I thought it was a Bahraini Ismaili group who stole the Kaaba stone?
Orwell wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
the black stone (a meteor which is believed to have come from heaven. Muslims believe it will judge people's polytheistic views in the day of judgement.
That sounds odd. The kaaba was a shrine of the polytheistic Bedouin tribes before Muhammed introduced Islam. Each tribe had its own rock, and that particular rock gained special significance for representing Allah, the moon god and chief deity of the Bedouin pagan religion. Not denying that that's what Muslim's believe, it just seems odd given the history of the stone.
Sources?
30 Apr 2008, 2:34 am
oscuria wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
the black stone (a meteor which is believed to have come from heaven. Muslims believe it will judge people's polytheistic views in the day of judgement.
That sounds odd. The kaaba was a shrine of the polytheistic Bedouin tribes before Muhammed introduced Islam. Each tribe had its own rock, and that particular rock gained special significance for representing Allah, the moon god and chief deity of the Bedouin pagan religion. Not denying that that's what Muslim's believe, it just seems odd given the history of the stone.
Sources?
Not quite sure what you mean here. That was all just regular ole mainstream history. I could reference my history textbook, but that's a secondary source, or I could take the time to go and find what sources they cited. Anyways, the rock being a shrine to pagan Bedouin gods is not disputed, and is even mentioned in the Qu'ran, though that includes other elements to the story that historians haven't yet found much basis for (to my knowledge at least). The chief deity of the Bedouin tribes was called Allah, though allegedly of a different etymology than the modern word Allah for the one god of Islam. I don't know Arabic, so can't comment on that much.
_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
30 Apr 2008, 3:18 am
Orwell wrote:
oscuria wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
the black stone (a meteor which is believed to have come from heaven. Muslims believe it will judge people's polytheistic views in the day of judgement.
That sounds odd. The kaaba was a shrine of the polytheistic Bedouin tribes before Muhammed introduced Islam. Each tribe had its own rock, and that particular rock gained special significance for representing Allah, the moon god and chief deity of the Bedouin pagan religion. Not denying that that's what Muslim's believe, it just seems odd given the history of the stone.
Sources?
Not quite sure what you mean here. That was all just regular ole mainstream history. I could reference my history textbook, but that's a secondary source, or I could take the time to go and find what sources they cited. Anyways, the rock being a shrine to pagan Bedouin gods is not disputed, and is even mentioned in the Qu'ran, though that includes other elements to the story that historians haven't yet found much basis for (to my knowledge at least). The chief deity of the Bedouin tribes was called Allah, though allegedly of a different etymology than the modern word Allah for the one god of Islam. I don't know Arabic, so can't comment on that much.
al-illat?
The Bedouins had many deities. I was under the impression Allah was relevant to Mecca and not to all of the Bedouin tribes.
30 Apr 2008, 3:39 pm
skafather84 wrote:
same reason muslims can't go to israel.
religion is nothing but a breeding ground for ignorance, stupidity, violence, bigotry, and enslavement.
religion is nothing but a breeding ground for ignorance, stupidity, violence, bigotry, and enslavement.
What are you talking about? There are Muslims in Israel.
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30 Apr 2008, 3:52 pm
oscuria wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
same reason muslims can't go to israel.
religion is nothing but a breeding ground for ignorance, stupidity, violence, bigotry, and enslavement.
religion is nothing but a breeding ground for ignorance, stupidity, violence, bigotry, and enslavement.
Woah there...Muslims are allowed into Israel. Who told you that lie?
i was more refering to the abusive practices within border patrol around the area with regards to palestine in the west bank. israel considers much of the west bank to be israeli land and occupy it as such and also regulate it as such and have cut off many of the highways and passages within the area. not easy news to find either since so much of the media is pro-israel rather than being unbiased.
01 May 2008, 7:53 am
oscuria wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
Non-Muslims are also not allowed inside Medina. It's something I've always questioned, and found answers in incidents such as when a certain Zoroastrian-influenced sect dumped corpses into the Zam Zam well and stole the black stone (a meteor which is believed to have come from heaven. Muslims believe it will judge people's polytheistic views in the day of judgement. This sect is responsible for breaking the stone). Even so, many non-Muslims entered Mecca by pretending to be Muslims. I personally have no view, I've never gone to Mecca or Medina or Jerusalem.
The KSA is an absurd country, ruled by Wahaabists. If you must know, Wahaabism is the form of Islam adopted by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. It has extremist interpretations. A decade ago, the KSA didn't allow anyone to become a citizen. Now, Muslims can become citizens. In 1959, the KSA abolished slavery. The KSA is a century behind the rest of the world when it comes to political factors. However, the law prohibiting non-Muslims from entering the two holy cities is of Quranic origin, not Wahaabi.
I don't know what this topic has to do with Persian Jews, however, I'd like to note that Jews in Iran are ideal citizens, and are 100% anti-Zionist. That's why they're still in Iran. That's why they're treated with respect by the Iranians. Muslims are not Nazis.
The KSA is an absurd country, ruled by Wahaabists. If you must know, Wahaabism is the form of Islam adopted by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. It has extremist interpretations. A decade ago, the KSA didn't allow anyone to become a citizen. Now, Muslims can become citizens. In 1959, the KSA abolished slavery. The KSA is a century behind the rest of the world when it comes to political factors. However, the law prohibiting non-Muslims from entering the two holy cities is of Quranic origin, not Wahaabi.
I don't know what this topic has to do with Persian Jews, however, I'd like to note that Jews in Iran are ideal citizens, and are 100% anti-Zionist. That's why they're still in Iran. That's why they're treated with respect by the Iranians. Muslims are not Nazis.
I thought it was a Bahraini Ismaili group who stole the Kaaba stone?
Yes, the Qarmatians were based in Bahrain, but were heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism. For example, they changed the Qibla (direction of prayer) from Mecca to a source of fire, a Zoroastrian practice (fire represents God's purity in the Zoroastrian faith), and declared that the glorious Persian age had been resurrected.
Orwell wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
the black stone (a meteor which is believed to have come from heaven. Muslims believe it will judge people's polytheistic views in the day of judgement.
That sounds odd. The kaaba was a shrine of the polytheistic Bedouin tribes before Muhammed introduced Islam. Each tribe had its own rock, and that particular rock gained special significance for representing Allah, the moon god and chief deity of the Bedouin pagan religion. Not denying that that's what Muslim's believe, it just seems odd given the history of the stone.
Actually, the moon God & chief deity of Mecca was Hubal. Allah was a common word in Arabia, Al = The, Lah = One. Allah was used to describe the creator God, similar to Hinduism's "Bhagvan". The pagan Arabs would pray to Allah through these deities. Similar to Hinduism, the Hindus pray to the one God through their many Gods and Goddesses who are considered to be aspects of one God. After the establishment of Islam, the word "Allah" was restricted to representing the one monotheistic God. Even Arabic speaking Christians and Jews use the word Allah for God. For example, Allah al-ab (God the father) and Allah al-ibn (God the son).
Also, the Ka'aba was built by Adam, and rebuilt by Abraham. It housed pagan idols many centuries later. I have quoted wiki to describe the Islamic version of the stone's history:
Wikipedia wrote:
Muslims believe that the stone fell from heaven during the time of Adam and Eve, when it was pure and dazzling white. It turned black after absorbing sins over the years. It was later removed and hidden in the hill of Abu Qubays near Mecca. When Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba, the Archangel Gabriel brought the stone out of hiding and gave it to him.
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04 May 2008, 8:44 pm
skafather84 wrote:
same reason muslims can't go to israel.
religion is nothing but a breeding ground for ignorance, stupidity, violence, bigotry, and enslavement.
religion is nothing but a breeding ground for ignorance, stupidity, violence, bigotry, and enslavement.
YOU are ignorant! Since when CAN"T Muslims go to Israel? MUSLIMS LIVE IN ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM IS ONE OF THE MAIN PILGRIMAGE SITES!! !! Get your facts strait!! !
05 May 2008, 4:47 pm
Khan_Sama wrote:
That's an unethical reply. Execution in the KSA is reserved only for murderers and rapists. At the most, if you sneak into Mecca, you will be detained overnight, fined, and deported.
Believe you me, if it wasn't that news travels fast, a kaffir in Makka would truly be executed. If not by the government, then by the locals.
