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ciounoi
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03 May 2008, 11:28 pm

How often do the traits of giftedness and aspergers overlap? I know that I have several aspergers traits, mainly in the no friends and loves lists and charts department :-), but could it be attributed to just generally being head smart and not socially/emotionally smart? I know I'm very intelligent and I understand most things on a mainly logical/intellectual standpoint, but my emotions and social skills have been stuck in seventh grade for the past ten years or so. Do the two have similar traits?


And just to share a recent faux pas... I was trying to make conversation with an acquaintance who had recently been burned out of her apartment. So how do I strike up a chat? "So, how about that fire? Did you lose everything, or just some things?" :oops: As soon as it was out of my mouth I wanted to shoot myself. ><



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03 May 2008, 11:32 pm

Haha... I caint remember how many times I've eaten my foot for lunch. I swear I ought have permanent teeth marks on it.

I usually circumvent that situation by bringing an NT friend with me, and they open the conversation. Then, I can jump in looking slightly less like an ass.

And yea, I think gifted traits often overlap with aspieness. I think it often is because, unlike the rest of those dweebs, we don't feel the need to blend in and therefore use our brains to the fullest, even when it gets us laughed at in school.



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03 May 2008, 11:37 pm

ciounoi wrote:
Being head smart and not socially/emotionally smart?
This is one definition of Aspergers.



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03 May 2008, 11:51 pm

I am considered 'gifted,' cogntively. That is, my IQ is measured at 160+
But....so what? I think what's important is that I have drive and focus!
Socially, I'm not aversive (I think most on WP are GREAT individuals, and I just don't believe we're 'socially stupid'). But, social kindergartener? YES! I don't do anything wrong or bad, just rather innocently. I guess this is my vulnerability. So, I am 'gifted,' whatever that term is supposed to actually mean, but social dynamics elude me. I do try, very hard, but I'm painfully shy and leery of strangers. Sigh....

I am, by Dx, a HFA, which does make me a strong scientist (logical/analytical). And artistic. I have many interests!

But socio/verbal? No.


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04 May 2008, 12:00 am

That's the interesting joke about labelling people as having "Asperger's syndrome".

How many would remain if only those with IQs around the mean were to be taken into account?
A study correlating those two things would be interesting to look at. . .



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04 May 2008, 12:34 am

This is a topic I've been wondering about for a long time: giftedness vs Asperger's.

I have a friend whose son seem Aspie to me.

She's been discussing with me all the difficulties he's having at school, meltdowns, no friends, sensory sensitivity etc etc

I recommended she go to the clinic we go to see whether he might be Aspie.

A week later she came back and said she'd been doing some research on the internet and discovered her son is gifted. That the signs of giftedness include sensory issues etc. She's going to get her son IQ tested.

So is she in denial?

Is giftedness separate to Asperger's, or just undiagnosed Asperger's?

Helen



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04 May 2008, 12:50 am

Smelena, I don't know - good question, with no real answer either....hmm.

Certainly though, those with really high IQ's, regardless of whether they are AS/HFA, will invariably have adjustment problems socially. Here's why (quite simple, really): The mean IQ in the general human population is ~ 100. This means the 'real world' is geared to those with an IQ of 100; consider TV, media, books, social events, workplace, school programs.....endless list. If one has an IQ outside of 1 or 2 standards deviations of this mean, whether that IQ is 'too low' or 'too high' that individual just won't 'fit in,' regardless of how hard they try or pretend to be normal. The world just isn't designed for those with IQ outside the normal range. I think an IQ of ~ 80ish, or less, is a real detriment in this society. Those with high IQs are, in essence, disabled too.

Analogous to the average human adult height; sure, there's a lot of variation. If you notice everything from shopping stores, home fixtures, libraries, etc.....are designed for those within a 'normal range.' But if one is a dwarf - oh no. If one is 3 ft tall, even an ATM is not accessible! Similarly, if one is outrageously tall, like over 7 ft, there's problems - like hitting their head on door jams, not fitting into cars, clothes, etc.

Plus, if one is neurologically distinct, there just will be that adjustment problem.

That Bell Curve really does apply.....sigh.
If one if HFA/Aspie, plus high IQ (there is a correlation, for sure), then double indemnity. Plus that social awkwardness.
Yup - we're doomed.


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04 May 2008, 12:54 am

I'm sure 'gifted' has changed meaning lately - it used to just mean smarter than the others kids and getting bored in class, but it seems to be creeping towards meaning 'mild aspergers'. I can only judge from what I've seen and read on the internet (not always reliable), but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a continuum all the way from LFA to HFA, Aspergers and Gifted.


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04 May 2008, 7:09 am

Smelena wrote:
This is a topic I've been wondering about for a long time: giftedness vs Asperger's.

I have a friend whose son seem Aspie to me.

She's been discussing with me all the difficulties he's having at school, meltdowns, no friends, sensory sensitivity etc etc

I recommended she go to the clinic we go to see whether he might be Aspie.

A week later she came back and said she'd been doing some research on the internet and discovered her son is gifted. That the signs of giftedness include sensory issues etc. She's going to get her son IQ tested.

So is she in denial?

Is giftedness separate to Asperger's, or just undiagnosed Asperger's?

Helen


I fit almost every old programmer stereotype! WE fit almost every geek(The intelligent kind that works with computers, and sees odd dress as utilitarian, not a fashion statement) stereotype. Most of that fits the genius stereotype. THAT fits the old AS stereotype!

That is ESPECIALLY interesting, since I fit those stereotypes BETTER than I fit the male stereotype(Aggressive, interested in sports, reckless, physical, etc....) or even the human one (Backbitting, gossipy, out for ones self, sycophantic etc...) BTW I am a straight male.

Your friend might be right about her son, but gifted doesn't mean he isn't AS!



Last edited by 2ukenkerl on 04 May 2008, 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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04 May 2008, 7:18 am

amaren wrote:
I'm sure 'gifted' has changed meaning lately - it used to just mean smarter than the others kids and getting bored in class, but it seems to be creeping towards meaning 'mild aspergers'. I can only judge from what I've seen and read on the internet (not always reliable), but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a continuum all the way from LFA to HFA, Aspergers and Gifted.


Where have YOU been?!?!? The OLD idea of genius used to have things like:

arrogant
bad socially
clumsy
odd interests, often around the area they are the smartest in.
In some areas they may be even BELOW PAR! There are some areas you can be VERY low in and still considered genius, and social is one of them.
There is EVEN the idea of having a one track mind, getting over involved, etc....
of being OBSESSED with the task at hand and forgetting to eat.



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04 May 2008, 7:28 am

Quote:
Someone knowledgeable about giftedness could see these differences more readily than those who are not familiar. What I frequently see in practice is that when gifted youth are given the opportunity to interact with true "intellectual peers" in a particular area, their interactions are not only unimpaired, but also are often typical. In a child with Asperger's Disorder, one is not likely to see reciprocal interaction or discussion about a topic even if both children have an interest in the same topic. This is in marked contrast to gifted youngsters who will engage in extremely intense and also reciprocal conversations if both of them share the interest in, say, Pokemon or Harry Potter.


Misdiagnosis of Asperger's Disorder in gifted youth



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04 May 2008, 7:58 am

Danielismyname wrote:
Quote:
Someone knowledgeable about giftedness could see these differences more readily than those who are not familiar. What I frequently see in practice is that when gifted youth are given the opportunity to interact with true "intellectual peers" in a particular area, their interactions are not only unimpaired, but also are often typical. In a child with Asperger's Disorder, one is not likely to see reciprocal interaction or discussion about a topic even if both children have an interest in the same topic. This is in marked contrast to gifted youngsters who will engage in extremely intense and also reciprocal conversations if both of them share the interest in, say, Pokemon or Harry Potter.


Misdiagnosis of Asperger's Disorder in gifted youth


GEE, I DO have "reciprocal interaction [and] discussion about [topics]"! Sometimes there are even shared experiences. Edward R. Amend runs a practice named after him in KY. I would be suspicious of this, and am curious what he is basing his ideas on. He doesn't seem to be describing a lot of people here.



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04 May 2008, 8:21 am

Children with Asperger's often appear socially aloof to [all] peers, or the one-sided, verbose, and insensitive ilk; whereas "gifted" children have trouble interacting with those who aren't their "intellectual peers", but they do fine with those who have a similar level of intelligence.



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04 May 2008, 8:35 am

Danielismyname wrote:
Children with Asperger's often appear socially aloof to [all] peers, or the one-sided, verbose, and insensitive ilk; whereas "gifted" children have trouble interacting with those who aren't their "intellectual peers", but they do fine with those who have a similar level of intelligence.


Actually, even the stereotypical genius does better with those that have the same, or peripheral, interest, and tend to be aloof with others, ESPECIALLY those that aren't as bright.

Yeah, I know, this is where you mention I am not "officially"/"professionally" diagnosed, but I can downright ENJOY talking with someone about my interests, ESPECIALLY if they can give me new viewpoints or teach me something.



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04 May 2008, 8:44 am

Yes -- the stereotypical genius has the same problems as the "gifted" individual.

Adults with Asperger's are known to enjoy talking of their interest to others, it's usually talking to them rather than talking with them; the "gifted" individual will share ideas, share information backwards and forwards in a "normal" manner. The individual with Asperger's will usually have the appearance of lecturing others. If they ask for input, it's usually for reassurance of what they already know, and what they know is usually right [as far as understanding of facts go].

A "gifted" individual without AS won't have problems with the stereotypical reciprocal interaction.

Individuals with AS can have a "gifted" level of intellect, just as they can have an average level of intelligence.



ciounoi
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04 May 2008, 8:49 am

Sooo... absolutely no telling which one I am? ><