Just one question for young earth creationists.

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Edenthiel
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09 Oct 2015, 12:20 pm

QueenBeeSylv wrote:
How can you prove it wasn't made three seconds ago complete with fosls, museums, books, Darwinians and Fundies?

How can you prove it even exists?

We can argue and persuazde, just not know or prove


Actually, the whole idea behind science is that we can know and prove. We start out with knowledge of low confidence and over time raise the confidence in our assertions of truth by testing them. Pseudo-philosophical questions like, "what if all of reality was created just moments ago" are considered irrelevant because they fall into an infinite body of possibilities, all of which are equally not-provable and therefore have a confidence of zero. In other words, insofar as determining truth, they are essentially useless.


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QueenBeeSylv
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10 Oct 2015, 1:15 pm

Exactly my point.

But you think science can get at unique truth. I know ernough scientists - it can't.



naturalplastic
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10 Oct 2015, 1:27 pm

QueenBeeSylv wrote:
Exactly my point.

But you think science can get at unique truth. I know ernough scientists - it can't.


Exactly.

Which is why I am on to you!

I know for a FACT that you don't even exist!

I cant prove you, Ms. Bee, exist. Therefore -you must not exist! :D

You're probably just a fig newton of my imagination.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 10 Oct 2015, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Edenthiel
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10 Oct 2015, 2:24 pm

QueenBeeSylv wrote:
Exactly my point.

But you think science can get at unique truth. I know ernough scientists - it can't.

Define, "unique truth", please.


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QueenBeeSylv
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16 Oct 2015, 12:37 pm

No it cannot be proven I exist. I don't think I exist because I think. I assume I exist until proven otherwise - science, right?

Unique truth - either you believe , and it is NOT verifiable - that there is TRUTH - that the cat is REALLY dead (or alive, I haven't opened the box yet] not BOTH dead and alive or NEITHER dead or alive - or you do not consider TRUTH true.

I believe, without verification, that TRUTH IS - the cat's status is what it IS. And there are no two ways about it.

If science is not working toward unique truth, absolute fact, genuine understanding, then it is either unimaginative masturbation or a con game to get grants.

A lot of what passes for science is, of course.



Edenthiel
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16 Oct 2015, 3:12 pm

QueenBeeSylv wrote:
No it cannot be proven I exist. I don't think I exist because I think. I assume I exist until proven otherwise - science, right?

Unique truth - either you believe , and it is NOT verifiable - that there is TRUTH - that the cat is REALLY dead (or alive, I haven't opened the box yet] not BOTH dead and alive or NEITHER dead or alive - or you do not consider TRUTH true.

I believe, without verification, that TRUTH IS - the cat's status is what it IS. And there are no two ways about it.

If science is not working toward unique truth, absolute fact, genuine understanding, then it is either unimaginative masturbation or a con game to get grants.

A lot of what passes for science is, of course.


"I assume I exist until proven otherwise - science, right?"

Actually, yes. There is strong evidence for your existence that such a conclusion is reasonable given the available information. Past that, see Russell's Teapot. Past *that* you are in the realm of the ridiculous arguments that matter only to philosophy academics.

I don't think you understand Schrodinger's Cat. It's an illustration of a principal in quantum theory called superposition, the so-called, "observer's paradox". The observation or measurement itself affects an outcome, so that the outcome (TRUTH, if you will) as such does not exist unless the measurement is made. But any measurement will by its very nature affect whether the particle exists in that location. This has been shown to be true* on a subatomic level. It has never been shown to to be true on a macro level.

*accepted as fact, for the purpose of science.


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naturalplastic
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16 Oct 2015, 5:01 pm

QueenBeeSylv wrote:
How can you prove it wasn't made three seconds ago complete with fosls, museums, books, Darwinians and Fundies?

How can you prove it even exists?

We can argue and persuazde, just not know or prove


So you're saying that: God created the Universe five minutes ago. He created it with the appearance of age. The universe includes both holy books that say that the earth is 6000 years old,AND geologic sedimentary layers, fossils, etc, that point to an Earth being many millions of years old, and he created you, but implanted you with false memories of having a childhood, and growing up, and having a life, etc., and so on and so on...?

Basically you're a solipsist: a person who believes that the only things that exists are he/she, and sensory impressions.

Is that correct?