Republicans (or conservatives) and Democrats (or libs)

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Who works?
I'm a Democrat or liberal, and I work full-time. 39%  39%  [ 9 ]
I'm a Democrat or liberal, and I don't work full-time. 22%  22%  [ 5 ]
I'm a Republican or conservative, and I work full-time. 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
I'm a Republican or conservative, and I don't work full-time. 26%  26%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 23

Ragtime
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15 May 2008, 4:32 pm

monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
And, as far as my supposedly not understanding science,
I'm the only one in the evolution threads
who referred to the scientific method.


Reeely? In all the many threads on non-scientific creationism, only you were the champion of the scientific method? :roll:


Reeely.


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Orwell
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15 May 2008, 4:39 pm

Ragtime wrote:
monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
And, as far as my supposedly not understanding science,
I'm the only one in the evolution threads
who referred to the scientific method.


Reeely? In all the many threads on non-scientific creationism, only you were the champion of the scientific method? :roll:


Reeely.

Odd, I don't recall you ever pointing out any EVIDENCE for your views. Empiricism is a major part of science. Really, I can point out ways in which evolution meets the definition of science you put forth, but didn't regard it as worth the effort given the level of critical thought you seemed willing to put into such discussions.


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Ragtime
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15 May 2008, 4:40 pm

Orwell wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
And, as far as my supposedly not understanding science,
I'm the only one in the evolution threads
who referred to the scientific method.


Reeely? In all the many threads on non-scientific creationism, only you were the champion of the scientific method? :roll:


Reeely.

Odd, I don't recall you ever pointing out any EVIDENCE for your views. Empiricism is a major part of science. Really, I can point out ways in which evolution meets the definition of science you put forth, but didn't regard it as worth the effort given the level of critical thought you seemed willing to put into such discussions.


What's the point of discussing anything with all you who constantly criticized everything I wrote??
You're just closed-minded, and therefore not worth the bother.
If you end up in Heaven with me, great. If not, great. Either way, I'm set.


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greenblue
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15 May 2008, 4:43 pm

Ragtime wrote:
monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
And, as far as my supposedly not understanding science,
I'm the only one in the evolution threads
who referred to the scientific method.


Reeely? In all the many threads on non-scientific creationism, only you were the champion of the scientific method? :roll:


Reeely.

No one else?
not even iamnotaparakeet?


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CityAsylum
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15 May 2008, 4:44 pm

This is hilarious - Ragtime, you have such a following that people are actually coming into this thread from another to blast you! :lol:

I'm guessing that you secretly feel pretty proud of that, rather than picked-on . . . 8)



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15 May 2008, 4:44 pm

Ragtime wrote:
What's the point of discussing anything with all you who constantly criticized everything I wrote??
You're just closed-minded, and therefore not worth the bother.
If you end up in Heaven with me, great. If not, great. Either way, I'm set.

I won't even touch on your supreme arrogance here.

I am willing to listen to any points you're willing to make. But you have consistently refused to make any points. What do you have to say, aside from your paranoid ravings about persecution at the hands of evil scientists who started the Holocaust because evolution doesn't explain gravity? :roll: If you are willing to discuss any of the actual issues, I created a thread expressly for that purpose. In fact, I just bumped it, so it's right at the top of the page for you. Have at it.


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greenblue
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15 May 2008, 4:58 pm

Ragtime wrote:
What's the point of discussing anything with all you who constantly criticized everything I wrote??

I think the way posts are made if they contain logical fallacies, and the lack of providing a real scientific value, are the things that are criticized, mostly prejudiced arguments, such as this thread as an example.

Quote:
You're just closed-minded, and therefore not worth the bother.

Actually, there are some open-minded people here, speaking of evolution there are christians here who accept it.

An attitude seen like closed-minded seem to be like going "it is crap" argument (Evolution), and well, using the "Who works?" question to differentiate conservatives from liberals doesn't sound that rational and more like a logical fallacy. And doesn't seem too much of an open-minded attitude either, some posters have shown more of an open mind when they have stated their views about conservativism and liberalism.

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If you end up in Heaven with me, great. If not, great. Either way, I'm set.

Where exactly? ;)


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Awesomelyglorious
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15 May 2008, 5:05 pm

Ragtime wrote:
You come off very disingenuous. "Frankly, I have no personal problem with your poll at all"
is completely and obviously false, for instance.

Me? I thought I always come off as very disingenuous. Really though, my comment is not completely and obviously false though. I don't have a personal problem with your poll, it IS in fact, your poll. I just see it as faulty.

Ragtime wrote:
No poll "backfires". All of them teach us something.
And, as far as my supposedly not understanding science,
I'm the only one in the evolution threads
who referred to the scientific method.
And I didn't stop there.
Since people were seemingly believing that "science" means "shouting down dissenters",
I quoted the scientific method for them.
How much more scientific can one get
than to insist that we all stick by the scientific method, hmmm?

Actually, from what I recall, a number of people referred to elements of the philosophy of science, and as well, many other people pointed out data that supported evolutionary theory. The issue is that science does mean shouting down dissenters who add no value to the debate. Really though, nobody had a problem with the scientific method so much as your unending levels of BS ranging from conspiracy theories to willful ignorance to attacking the individuals involved as a distraction. Heck, Orwell created a thread to make honest claims, and I made a thread about people who stand by poor positions such as yours calling it dishonest.
Quote:
Contradiction in terms.
Most basically, all functioning requires conservative thinking
(i.e., the employment of logic),
even for those who are outwardly politically liberal.

There are many intelligent liberals. In fact, most academics lean left.

Quote:
What's the point of discussing anything with all you who constantly criticized everything I wrote??
You're just closed-minded, and therefore not worth the bother.
If you end up in Heaven with me, great. If not, great. Either way, I'm set.

Well, to properly address both sides. We criticized because we thought you were wrong. This is not a function of closedmindedness so much as a conviction of the wrongness of your position. If a person sees a child write 1+1=3 and refuses to consider the arguments that 1+1 really EQUALS 3 as valid, that person is not necessarily closed minded as they are honest to what they know.



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15 May 2008, 5:14 pm

Ragtime wrote:
greenblue wrote:
The thread is prejudiced.


Well, it is now that you're here! :P

Don't give me too much credit, I don't have anything to do with people acquiring the Truth. 8)


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Phagocyte
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15 May 2008, 5:34 pm

Ragtime wrote:
If you end up in Heaven with me, great.


Cool. I'll bring beer.

Quote:
If not, great. Either way, I'm set.


Not without beer you aren't.

Quote:
What's the point of discussing anything with all you who constantly criticized everything I wrote??
You're just closed-minded, and therefore not worth the bother.


Of course we're going to criticize it. I criticize Evolution all the time (and it holds up to it, which is why I accept it), would I afford your stance no less? That's what strengthens a theory, finding it's flaws and seeing how it holds up to scrutiny. Criticizing your views doesn't make me close-minded; I'm not going to accept it on blind faith. And actually I have only seen you talk about the Evolution/Creation debate, though I have heard little from you about your actual stance itself (and scientific proof supporting it, of course). I would like to hear your side, and from what I've seen, Orwell keeps a close watch on his thread to make sure there is no flaming, so it shouldn't get out of hand.


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15 May 2008, 6:52 pm

Ragtime wrote:
How much more scientific can one get
than to insist that we all stick by the scientific method, hmmm?

Understanding it would be a good start. Have you yet looked up the difference between proof, hypothesis testing, and experiment? The post in which you insisted on the scientific method was the one where you got a bit confused:
Ragtime wrote:
"4. Test your hypothesis by doing an experiment"
How has this step been followed to determine whether "man came from apes"

You object to the lack of experimentation in this specific question as if that were the only way to test a hypothesis. The first two tests of special relativity were not experiments. Do go and look it up.

You also keep going on about evolution being unproven. I have not yet seen your response to my explanation that no theory in the natural sciences is ever proven like mathematical theorems. Biological evolution being what produced current species is proven beyond reasonable doubt, but not like a mathematical theorem. Going on about evolution being unproven tries to obscure that difference, and shows either some ignorance of the scientific method, or an attempt to confuse others.



Fred2670
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15 May 2008, 7:25 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Let's just say that I did not infer anything from your highly populist stance and drew conclusions from things other than that.


Are you inferring that I am a populist?
Anyone ever accuse you of being over presumptuous?
Would you ever consider drawing a conclusion from a fact?

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Still, it is not inconceivable that I still drew my conclusions from anything but your position, as after all, there are few powerful populists out there, meaning that for you to have power and be a populist is unlikely.


A single populist cant accomplish much (theres a song here somewhere) but if I "was" a populist I would derive my power from the populace. Together people can do great things (angry mob) and perhaps even restore this country's former glory. Deny it if you will, but there is a growing number of dissatisfied Americans who will no longer tolerate the oppressive greed of their republican overlords. The Great Redistribution is at hand. Show me a republican and I will show you my money.


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Awesomelyglorious
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15 May 2008, 7:41 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
Are you inferring that I am a populist?
Anyone ever accuse you of being over presumptuous?
Would you ever consider drawing a conclusion from a fact?

I am inferring from this stance and past stances that you are a populist. Accuse me of being presumptuous? I never cared one way or another if they did as usually if I say something I end up being somewhat correct. Well, it would sort of suck to draw conclusions from guesses.

Quote:
A single populist cant accomplish much (theres a song here somewhere) but if I "was" a populist I would derive my power from the populace. Together people can do great things (angry mob) and perhaps even restore this country's former glory. Deny it if you will, but there is a growing number of dissatisfied Americans who will no longer tolerate the oppressive greed of their republican overlords. The Great Redistribution is at hand. Show me a republican and I will show you my money.

Right, and as an aspie, your control over the populace would likely be weaker than average. Together, people are not likely to do many great things, ever read about the bonus army in the Hoover years? You'd have no chance. Not only that, but honestly, it is unlikely that anything would be fixed or improved by the dramatic actions of an angry mob, most mobs are made up of people whose competence is not more valued elsewhere, and most dramatic actions cause instability by destroying or disrupting vital institutions. Frankly, I do deny the existence of real dissatisfaction. People may speak change, but they really just want a somewhat better version of what they have.



Fred2670
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15 May 2008, 8:01 pm

Frankly Id like to see you frankly come up with
a response without the frankly word frankly in it.
Frankly Im finding them frankly rediculous

and what is with "control over"...?

I wouldnt need to "control" anything to benefit from it,
only be there when the bottle is uncorked so to speak.
No need to steer this tidal wave. The natural direction
is itself a correction


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Awesomelyglorious
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15 May 2008, 8:12 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
Frankly Id like to see you frankly come up with
a response without the frankly word frankly in it.
Frankly Im finding them frankly rediculous

Frankly, I like the term frankly. And frankly, if you don't like it then frankly, that is your problem.
Quote:
and what is with "control over"...?

I wouldnt need to "control" anything to benefit from it,
only be there when the bottle is uncorked so to speak.
No need to steer this tidal wave. The natural direction
is itself a correction

You would need to control it though in order to claim that it is your power.



Fred2670
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15 May 2008, 8:53 pm

I have enough power (money) on a
personal level to contol my own destiny.

I would however, and do on occasion,
take part in group settings where the
goal is promoting the common good
and overcoming the bonds witch are
intended to subdue us.


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