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1948, Israel and the Palestinians: The True Story

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Ragtime
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22 May 2008, 3:02 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Image


What are you doing presenting historical evidence in this thread, iamnotaparakeet?
Don't you know that the other side of the argument here doesn't look at evidence?
I mean, what does archaeological proof mean to them, when they have their liberal ideals?


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Last edited by Ragtime on 22 May 2008, 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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22 May 2008, 3:05 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?

israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.

quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view.


If you'd like to talk about history, let's talk about the Jews owning and living in Israel and Jerusalem
for more than one thousand years.
Go on an archaeological dig there sometime, why don't you, and you'll find the soil is jam-packed with ancient Jewish artifacts.
(Oh, I forgot, evidence is not your preferred method of learning, excuse me.)

Really, skafool, if you're aguing against a Jewish state on its present land, history is the LAST subject you should bring up!
The Jews have less right to have a nation anywhere else on the globe than where they are right now,
so those who suggest Israel should rightly be relocated need to wake up -- they are EXACTLY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE.



i disprove you on the holocaust thing so you redirect to that they had the land a few thousand years ago while you ignore the past few hundred years where they didn't have the land.

does that mean you're also in favor of all of us being removed to give the indians their right of return back?


The exodus from Europe doesn't relate to the Holocaust?


Whoa, whoa, whoa... You're expecting him to get cause and effect. Don't be so demanding on his intellect!


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iamnotaparakeet
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22 May 2008, 3:10 pm

Ragtime wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?

israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.

quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view.


If you'd like to talk about history, let's talk about the Jews owning and living in Israel and Jerusalem
for more than one thousand years.
Go on an archaeological dig there sometime, why don't you, and you'll find the soil is jam-packed with ancient Jewish artifacts.
(Oh, I forgot, evidence is not your preferred method of learning, excuse me.)

Really, skafool, if you're aguing against a Jewish state on its present land, history is the LAST subject you should bring up!
The Jews have less right to have a nation anywhere else on the globe than where they are right now,
so those who suggest Israel should rightly be relocated need to wake up -- they are EXACTLY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE.



i disprove you on the holocaust thing so you redirect to that they had the land a few thousand years ago while you ignore the past few hundred years where they didn't have the land.

does that mean you're also in favor of all of us being removed to give the indians their right of return back?


The exodus from Europe doesn't relate to the Holocaust?


Whoa, whoa, whoa... You're expecting him to get cause and effect. Don't be so demanding on his intellect!


I suppose if they deny cause and effect in the origin of the universe, they'll also discount it in history. "And remember, no law is immutable or inviolate. There are no absolutes children..." Lawl.



skafather84
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22 May 2008, 3:31 pm

Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?

israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.

quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view.


If you'd like to talk about history, let's talk about the Jews owning and living in Israel and Jerusalem
for more than one thousand years.
Go on an archaeological dig there sometime, why don't you, and you'll find the soil is jam-packed with ancient Jewish artifacts.
(Oh, I forgot, evidence is not your preferred method of learning, excuse me.)

Really, skafool, if you're aguing against a Jewish state on its present land, history is the LAST subject you should bring up!
The Jews have less right to have a nation anywhere else on the globe than where they are right now,
so those who suggest Israel should rightly be relocated need to wake up -- they are EXACTLY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE.



i disprove you on the holocaust thing so you redirect to that they had the land a few thousand years ago while you ignore the past few hundred years where they didn't have the land.


Uh... pot, kettle? You completely ignored the entire 5,000-word scholarly article that this thread was based upon--
an article which articulated the facts better than either you or I could,
and you dismissed the whole thing -- in its entirety, you said -- on the grounds that it talks
about the last sixty-one years to the present day. :lol: The 37 historical quotes given in the article were all made up,
you imply. You fool.

Then, you say that only 1917 matters -- nothing before, and nothing afterward. (Not 1947-1948, and not ~1,000 B.C.) :lol: Idiot.


the article was very well written but complete and utter garbage and little more than a writeup for israel and a hit piece on palestine. it only showed one side of the issue, didn't give historical context, didn't give both sides of the issue, and was basically a puff piece.

and i'm done because you keep changing the subject whenever i present factual information to refute your points. when i challenge you on the holocaust thing, you change the subject to that the israelis had the land thousands of years ago. when i ask if you call for similar treatment for african americans or native americans you completely ignore it and divert elsewhere. this is a circular argument and i'm done because i'm getting dizzy and it's only lap 284.



LePetitPrince
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22 May 2008, 4:02 pm

What's worse than a Jewish Zionist?

Answer: A Christian Zionist! because Christians are supposed to love peace so Christian Zionists are the most hypocrite species of humans.



LePetitPrince
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22 May 2008, 4:03 pm

http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/seperationmap_eng.swf

Enough said.



Last edited by LePetitPrince on 22 May 2008, 4:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ragtime
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22 May 2008, 4:04 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
how can something that occured good 15+/- years before the holocaust be attributed to the holocaust?

israel being formed into a state was decided and announced in 1917 with the balfour declaration of 1917. the earliest nazi concentration camps weren't around until around the time of the reichstag fire in 1933.

quit messing up history to fit into your narrow world view.


If you'd like to talk about history, let's talk about the Jews owning and living in Israel and Jerusalem
for more than one thousand years.
Go on an archaeological dig there sometime, why don't you, and you'll find the soil is jam-packed with ancient Jewish artifacts.
(Oh, I forgot, evidence is not your preferred method of learning, excuse me.)

Really, skafool, if you're aguing against a Jewish state on its present land, history is the LAST subject you should bring up!
The Jews have less right to have a nation anywhere else on the globe than where they are right now,
so those who suggest Israel should rightly be relocated need to wake up -- they are EXACTLY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE.



i disprove you on the holocaust thing so you redirect to that they had the land a few thousand years ago while you ignore the past few hundred years where they didn't have the land.


Uh... pot, kettle? You completely ignored the entire 5,000-word scholarly article that this thread was based upon--
an article which articulated the facts better than either you or I could,
and you dismissed the whole thing -- in its entirety, you said -- on the grounds that it talks
about the last sixty-one years to the present day. :lol: The 37 historical quotes given in the article were all made up,
you imply. You fool.

Then, you say that only 1917 matters -- nothing before, and nothing afterward. (Not 1947-1948, and not ~1,000 B.C.) :lol: Idiot.


the article was very well written but complete and utter garbage


That's a paradox.

skafather wrote:
it only showed one side of the issue, didn't give historical context, didn't give both sides of the issue, and was basically a puff piece.


No, the attention was clearly evenly split among what went on between the Palestinians and their leaders,
what went on among the Jews, and what went on between the Jews and the Palestinians. (Which was, namely, peace.)

skafather wrote:
and i'm done because you keep changing the subject whenever i present factual information to refute your points.


That's what you've been doing all along!

skafather wrote:
when i challenge you on the holocaust thing, you change the subject to that the israelis had the land thousands of years ago.


It's the SAME SUBJECT. That subject is Israel.
I can't help it if you see false dividers between inexorably-related issues.

skafather wrote:
when i ask if you call for similar treatment for african americans or native americans you completely ignore it and divert elsewhere.


That was a diversion itself, and an obvious one.

skafather wrote:
this is a circular argument and i'm done because i'm getting dizzy and it's only lap 284.


Bye.


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Ragtime
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22 May 2008, 4:05 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
What's worse than a Jewish Zionist?

Answer: A Christian Zionist! because Christians are supposed to love peace so Christian Zionists are the most hypocrite species of humans.


No, no, no... What's even 'worse' than a Christian Zionist?

Me -- because I'm a Jewish-Christian American Zionist!

Stick that in yer pipe 'n smoke it.
8)


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Last edited by Ragtime on 22 May 2008, 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ragtime
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22 May 2008, 4:06 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
What's worse than a Jewish Zionist?


Hezbollah, who is currently bringing about the downfall of Lebanon.


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LePetitPrince
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22 May 2008, 4:11 pm

Ragtime wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
What's worse than a Jewish Zionist?

Answer: A Christian Zionist! because Christians are supposed to love peace so Christian Zionists are the most hypocrite species of humans.




Me -- because I'm a Jewish-Christian American Zionist!

8)


Disgusting...

I think you need to live in Israel more than US.



iamnotaparakeet
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22 May 2008, 4:14 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
What's worse than a Jewish Zionist?

Answer: A Christian Zionist! because Christians are supposed to love peace so Christian Zionists are the most hypocrite species of humans.


Peace will never be. It is impossible, but the words of YHWH through Baalam were:

Numbers 24:4-9 KJV
{4} He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
{5} How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, and thy tabernacles, O Israel!
{6} As the valleys are they spread forth, as gardens by the river's side, as the trees of lign aloes which the LORD hath planted, and as cedar trees beside the waters.
{7} He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his seed shall be in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted.
{8} God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.
{9} He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up? Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.



LePetitPrince
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22 May 2008, 4:16 pm

**slapping myself on face**
stop copy/pasting these nonsense jargon to me, I am atheist and I don't believe in these craps.



iamnotaparakeet
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22 May 2008, 4:17 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
**slapping myself on face**
stop copy/pasting these nonsense jargon to me, I am atheist and I don't believe in these craps.


This isn't about you.



LePetitPrince
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22 May 2008, 4:19 pm

Quote:
http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/seperationmap_eng.swf

Enough said.


Reposted.



iamnotaparakeet
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22 May 2008, 4:21 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
Quote:
http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/seperationmap_eng.swf

Enough said.


Reposted.


Play chess?



LePetitPrince
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22 May 2008, 4:37 pm

Ragtime wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
What's worse than a Jewish Zionist?


Hezbollah, who is currently bringing about the downfall of Lebanon.


Trying to hit a nail,eh?

Actually no, Hezbollah wouldn't become so powerful if Zionism didn't exist in the first place so you still worse than hezbollah. It's true that Hezbollah was created by Iran for another reason ("Building an iran version in Lebanon") other than resisting against Israel but their exploiting of the resistance cause that made them to have much ground during the last decades.