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D1nk0
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31 May 2008, 1:45 pm

Sand wrote:
Hey man, I'm not a b***h, I'm a bastard or a son of a b***h, whatever you might prefer. And what am I supposed to be trying? People have been ghost hunting for centuries with no concrete results. I just wished you good luck and you suddenly realized you don't have a ghost of a chance and so you're pissed off. Not my problem.


:lmao:

I dont think so Sand. Im making No definitive claims whatseover about the existance or lack of existance about Ghost are YOU ARE!, though not explicitly. Bear in mind that if Ghost absoultely do NOt and/or Cannot exist YOU must explain why. Negation claims require evidence too :wink: .



Sand
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31 May 2008, 2:00 pm

I realize you don't think, so your conviction about ghosts is rather tenuous at best. Instead of a vague undefined name why don't you get specific as to what phenomena you intend to pursue? Is it the spirit of someone dead or a spooky extra dimensional invader or a projection of someone's mind visible to everybody else or just what?
Spirits of dead people are pretty well debunked these days so it might be something else.
I don't have to be a scientist to be able to think clearly. I gather from your input that you have little or no scientific training but I might be wrong. Lots of scientists have very peculiar ideas but they pursue them with rigorous analysis and experimentation. I would be delighted if you could demonstrate to the world that ghosts are real phenomena and you could introduce one to a scientific audience. I'm not holding my breath.



slowmutant
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31 May 2008, 2:03 pm

Can't prove a negative, Sand.

With all that hot air, you sidestepped the question.



merr
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31 May 2008, 2:04 pm

I dont want people to be deferred from posting anything because someone might try to call them anti-intellectual, stupid or anything else like that. If someone's had an experience they shouldnt feel the need to prove anything.



Sand
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31 May 2008, 2:11 pm

I am not accusing anybody of stupidity but I cannot see how denying my belief in ghosts could be offensive. The amount of anger that seems to be generated when I merely express my doubts in the possibility or my speculations as to what the ghost phenomena might be is rather surprising. I wonder why some of the posters have such a heavy emotional investment in establishing their reality. There is something very interesting psychologically going on.



merr
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31 May 2008, 2:35 pm

^^No offense man, but I suppose people dont respond all too well with constant sarcasm or opposition. It just makes a a person seem like they want to argue instead of discuss. But I understand what you are saying.



Last edited by merr on 31 May 2008, 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sand
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31 May 2008, 2:41 pm

Quite a while ago I saw a kind of gnomish figure at the foot of my bed when I awoke. It disappeared when I was fully awake but I am fully aware that my mind plays tricks when I am half asleep and I had no impulse to tell people I had seen a demon or something else. I know the tricks my mind plays.



merr
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31 May 2008, 2:42 pm

how clear was the figure?



Sand
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31 May 2008, 2:46 pm

How does one say? I do quite a lot of graphic work and know the visual mind can construct all sorts of images from a single input. It seemed real enough when I saw it but I know only too well that reality is a matter of perception and decision. I do not consider it real anymore.



skafather84
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31 May 2008, 2:47 pm

Sand wrote:
I am not accusing anybody of stupidity but I cannot see how denying my belief in ghosts could be offensive. The amount of anger that seems to be generated when I merely express my doubts in the possibility or my speculations as to what the ghost phenomena might be is rather surprising. I wonder why some of the posters have such a heavy emotional investment in establishing their reality. There is something very interesting psychologically going on.



well society right now (particularly american society) has been shifting lately towards protecting opinions as if they're fact. i think a lot of that influence comes from news corp and fox news and their way of presenting their shows and blurring the line between opinions and fact and many people are simply confusing their opinion with fact and treating it as such. to which, i quote daniel moynihan: “Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.” which fox news is actively combating that piece of wisdom.


if you want to check out another skeptic, check out the james randi educational foundation.

miracle healers of the religious walk of life should check out his million dollar prize. prove yourself to do supernatural work through god and you could get a million dollars. which, i'd hope, such a person would give to charity or to a church or something (assuming they can actually show supernatural abilities).


also check out factcheck.org a great site for sifting through the garbage on both sides.



Sand
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31 May 2008, 2:55 pm

One of the reasons I am so skeptical is that I am familiar with Randi and other work in the paranormal area. For some reason many people are terribly anxious to believe in the paranormal. Sir Conan Doyle amongst others permitted himself to be conned for a long time. It's despicable that scam artists take advantage of desperate people for criminal reasons.



D1nk0
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31 May 2008, 2:56 pm

Define the term Ghost for me Sand...

A Ghost is a soul without a body. What is a Soul? It is the essence of self. Your sarcastic replies are a clear indication that you
are not the slightest bit serious about what you are saying and you'd rather have fun stroking your ego and making others look naive and foolish. You have NOT presented a reason why such things cannot and do not exist. Hell, I can claim that my mind is playing tricks on me right now and that Im actually scuba diving in the puget sound right now. Does that make it true?
But like Merr said, the reason for the hostility Is the response you get when you use sarcasm in objective discussion.
So I dont think? What is thinking?? :P


Sand wrote:
I realize you don't think, so your conviction about ghosts is rather tenuous at best. Instead of a vague undefined name why don't you get specific as to what phenomena you intend to pursue? Is it the spirit of someone dead or a spooky extra dimensional invader or a projection of someone's mind visible to everybody else or just what?
Spirits of dead people are pretty well debunked these days so it might be something else.
I don't have to be a scientist to be able to think clearly. I gather from your input that you have little or no scientific training but I might be wrong. Lots of scientists have very peculiar ideas but they pursue them with rigorous analysis and experimentation. I would be delighted if you could demonstrate to the world that ghosts are real phenomena and you could introduce one to a scientific audience. I'm not holding my breath.



slowmutant
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31 May 2008, 2:57 pm

It is, isn't it?



skafather84
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31 May 2008, 2:58 pm

D1nk0 wrote:
A Ghost is a soul without a body.



prove to me that a ghost isn't simply a 3 dimensional shadow of a 4 dimensional being.



Sand
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31 May 2008, 3:02 pm

So, why can you assume a spirit without a body? I can't. But perhaps you're so scared of dying and dissolving back to the nothing you were before you were born that any alternative is preferable.