Page 4 of 4 [ 55 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

D1nk0
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,587

30 May 2008, 3:56 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Jesus' words, "He that believeth not shall be damned" clearly indicate that everyone
will be finally judged at the end by whether or not they believe in Jesus.


Well you can make people believe just about ANYTHING by acting very sure and asserting it emotionally And by telling them that if they dont go along with it something *very bad* will happen to them after they DIE; since its causally too late when that happens.



monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

30 May 2008, 4:05 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Jesus' words, "He that believeth not shall be damned" clearly indicate that everyone
will be finally judged at the end by whether or not they believe in Jesus.


No, it is not clear what they need to believe - it was not explicitly stated. Also, the nature of being damned ('cursed') is not explicitly stated - while it may refer to an end of life judgement by God, it could mean something quite different, like being cursed to not understand and walk in ignorance.



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

30 May 2008, 4:06 pm

monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

Even so, who would King David -- the highest authority in the land, having no one over him -- call "Lord"?


Given the fact that King David was born several hundreds of years before Jesus, it is hard to take that part literally.


I think it is not a great leap to imagine that spiritual sight would not be limited to the speed and flow of linear time.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

30 May 2008, 4:12 pm

monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
I have no doubt of that, as my particular and widely-accepted theology allows for demons to give people spiritual experiences mimicking a conversion to Jesus.


I think a psychological explanation is better grounded in reality. This type of thing has occurred long before Jesusism came on the scene, long before monotheism was common. What were people supposed to believe in way back then? Were their only choices nothing and demons?


No, surely not! Even the ancient Greeks had a temple inscribed "To the unknown god".
Paul, when preaching at Athens, declared this to be God in Acts 17:23.
Perhaps, with all their many gods for everything imaginable,
some miraculous occurances must not have been able to be explained.

God has intervened powerfully throughout human history; He did not hide Himself from anyone.
But He chose to reveal Himself formally to the Jews.
"And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people." Lev 23:12
Hence, "God's Chosen People".


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

30 May 2008, 4:15 pm

Ragtime wrote:
monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

Even so, who would King David -- the highest authority in the land, having no one over him -- call "Lord"?


Given the fact that King David was born several hundreds of years before Jesus, it is hard to take that part literally.


I think it is not a great leap to imagine that spiritual sight would not be limited to the speed and flow of linear time.


Oh, you mean necromancy!


I think that I will bow out of this conversation now - it gets boring when the other person thinks they can arbitrarily suspend the rules of the universe to allow or prove something that otherwise makes no sense.



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

30 May 2008, 4:17 pm

monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Jesus' words, "He that believeth not shall be damned" clearly indicate that everyone
will be finally judged at the end by whether or not they believe in Jesus.


No, it is not clear what they need to believe - it was not explicitly stated.


Well, He explicitly states that he is talking about "the Gospel", which is of course the "Good News" that the Messiah has come.

monty wrote:
Also, the nature of being damned ('cursed') is not explicitly stated - while it may refer to an end of life judgement by God, it could mean something quite different, like being cursed to not understand and walk in ignorance.


"Cursed" is a strong word, especially when posed opposite "Saved" in the preceding phrase by using the conjunction "but".


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

30 May 2008, 4:21 pm

monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
monty wrote:
Ragtime wrote:

Even so, who would King David -- the highest authority in the land, having no one over him -- call "Lord"?


Given the fact that King David was born several hundreds of years before Jesus, it is hard to take that part literally.


I think it is not a great leap to imagine that spiritual sight would not be limited to the speed and flow of linear time.


Oh, you mean necromancy!


:?:

No, that's what Saul tried to do with Samuel's spirit with the help of the witch at Endor in 1 Samuel 28:7.

What do you mean, "necromancy"? No one dead is involved, so I'm quite confused by your suggestion.
David was alive, of course, and his Lord -- which would have to be a spiritual authority, since, as king,
David had no earthly authority over him -- is always alive, being a spirit. It makes perfect sense.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.