The complete and utter pointlessness of life

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MrMark
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29 Jul 2009, 6:35 am

Xingularity wrote:
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Most people, upon introducing the topic of philosophy, immediately imagine a starting point of the classic mystery, "what is the meaning of life?", or "what is my purpose?". What most don't understand is that these are senseless questions.

I hope this serves to brighten someone's day.

I love it! Kinda like the pointlessness of debating the existence of god(s).

Of course, I think there's a process where younger minds have to ponder these questions in order to see the complete and utter pointlessness of it all and move into the bliss of acceptance.

I asked a 5-year-old once if he could remember where he was before he was here. He scrunched up his face and said, " Why you ask such silly questions?!"


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29 Jul 2009, 6:39 am

merrymadscientist wrote:
I realise now that I was rather depressed when I wrote the original post, even though I denied it at the time. I still think life is essentially meaningless, but I am rather more accepting of the idea now. ...
Gradually my self is disintegrating as I realise I am not a coherent whole, but simply a momentary set of feelings and thoughts which do not last and do not matter and do not need any meaning, but just exist. I've known this for quite a while, but now I can actually feel it and accept it and its fine.


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29 Jul 2009, 10:55 am

Sand wrote:
frinj wrote:
The meaning of life is different for everyone. It is completely subjective and is determined by what you love. I had litte, if any, meaning to my life until my son was born. I did not know I could love anyone that much or that unconditionally, and the minute he was born, I never questioned the meaning of my life again.

In retrospect, I don't think you need to have children to have meaning in life, but you have to have something you love more than yourself. That gives your life meaning. It gives you a fixed point against which to plot your course in life.

Self-love does not work, I think, because the problem is, it is too easy to forgive yourself for coming up short. Loving yourself more does not mean you will take better care of your body or achieve more in life because such love also implies you forgive yourself if you fail to take care of yourself or fail to achieve more. Self-love is a zero sum game, and thus does not help you plot any particular course in life. I spent probably over a decade of my adult life in a state of feeling not much love, except to the extent I loved myself. It did not prompt me to take any clear path in life. Instead, I just followed the path of least resistance. While I thought I deserved better, I also forgave myself for not coming through with anything better.

It is possible aspies find it harder to love, particularly to love anything more than ourselves, because there seems to be a fundamental illogic to that. However, I am also considering the possibility that aspies love as much as anyone, but have trouble putting a meaning to the word love, and thus it is like a mole on our back, hard to see or feel, but there just the same.

Anyway, if you want to find meaning in life, you better find something or some one to love.


For those who find meaning in life only through their relationships with other people there is a large problem as other people are an indeterminate and frequently a negative factor. There is enough fascination in the mere exploration of the various kinds of other life and non-living things to make life quite fascinating and worthwhile for me.


I did not say you could only find meaning in love for PEOPLE. Objects, ideas, experiences, animals, plants...it's all a source of meaning if you love it.

There may also be a continuum wherein the MORE you love something, the MORE meaning it gives your life, such that if you merely like something, it can still give your life a smidgeon of meaning.

After all, the word "meaning" is a definition. So you are really looking at what defines you. And what defines you as a person more than what you love? (I'll predict the obvious rejoinder that it would seem hate could be equally defining, though I think it is possible most examples of hate could be turned around into a form of love -- such as, if you hate homosexuals, perhaps you really just love the clean, simple, sensible notion of men loving women and vice versa. Regardless, the continuum idea subsumes hate as well as love.)



MrMark
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29 Jul 2009, 11:23 am

I think that maybe for this discussion "meaning" refers more to purpose or significance, rather than definition. The Dahli Lama says the purpose of life is to be happy.

mean·ing
n.
1. Something that is conveyed or signified; sense or significance.
2. Something that one wishes to convey, especially by language: The writer's meaning was obscured by his convoluted prose.
3. An interpreted goal, intent, or end: "The central meaning of his pontificate is to restore papal authority" (Conor Cruise O'Brien).
4. Inner significance: "But who can comprehend the meaning of the voice of the city?" (O. Henry).
adj.
1. Full of meaning; expressive.
2. Disposed or intended in a specified manner. Often used in combination: a well-meaning fellow; ill-meaning intentions.
Synonyms: meaning, acceptation, import, sense, significance, signification
These nouns refer to the idea conveyed by something, such as a word, action, gesture, or situation: Synonyms are words with the same or nearly the same meaning. In one of its acceptations value is a technical term in music. The import of his statement is ambiguous. The term anthropometry has only one sense. The significance of a green traffic light is widely understood. Linguists have determined the hieroglyphics' signification.


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Sand
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29 Jul 2009, 11:29 am

MrMark wrote:
I think that maybe for this discussion "meaning" refers more to purpose or significance, rather than definition. The Dahli Lama says the purpose of life is to be happy.

mean·ing
n.
1. Something that is conveyed or signified; sense or significance.
2. Something that one wishes to convey, especially by language: The writer's meaning was obscured by his convoluted prose.
3. An interpreted goal, intent, or end: "The central meaning of his pontificate is to restore papal authority" (Conor Cruise O'Brien).
4. Inner significance: "But who can comprehend the meaning of the voice of the city?" (O. Henry).
adj.
1. Full of meaning; expressive.
2. Disposed or intended in a specified manner. Often used in combination: a well-meaning fellow; ill-meaning intentions.
Synonyms: meaning, acceptation, import, sense, significance, signification
These nouns refer to the idea conveyed by something, such as a word, action, gesture, or situation: Synonyms are words with the same or nearly the same meaning. In one of its acceptations value is a technical term in music. The import of his statement is ambiguous. The term anthropometry has only one sense. The significance of a green traffic light is widely understood. Linguists have determined the hieroglyphics' signification.


Perhaps that's the purpose of the Dali Lama's life but I prefer to be uneasy about my ignorance and inactivity and eager to explore beckoning fields of understanding and deeply engaged in discovering things that are new to me. It's not placid happiness that fascinates me but strange energies of playing with new ideas and skills.



MrMark
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29 Jul 2009, 11:35 am

Some people think that life has no meaning other than what we give it or project onto it.

Jung saud: "Western man seems predominantly extraverted, Eastern man predominantly introverted. The former projects the meaning and considers that it exists in objects; the latter feels the meaning in himself. But the meaning is both without and within."

So does life have some objective meaning that exists outside of ourselves, or does it only have whatever meaning we feel inside ourselves? Jung seemed to feel it was both.


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Sand
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29 Jul 2009, 11:41 am

MrMark wrote:
Some people think that life has no meaning other than what we give it or project onto it.

Jung saud: "Western man seems predominantly extraverted, Eastern man predominantly introverted. The former projects the meaning and considers that it exists in objects; the latter feels the meaning in himself. But the meaning is both without and within."

So does life have some objective meaning that exists outside of ourselves, or does it only have whatever meaning we feel inside ourselves? Jung seemed to feel it was both.


Jung's statement is so empty. What is he trying to say? That the reason for living is internal or external? What might that reason be?



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29 Jul 2009, 11:54 am

Some people think Jung is full of s**t. Personally, I think he is no more than half full. For me, meaning is derived internally. I try to do what I can to increase happiness and reduce suffering in myself and others. This, among other things, gives me a sense that my life has meaning and purpose. Otherwise, it's just completely and utterly pointless. :)


Nevertheless, I can see that others derive meaning externally. Some rich people think it's all about money, and they feel their lives have meaning. Some highly socially skilled men think it's all about having sex with lots of beautiful women or men or both and they feel their lives have meaning. Some very intellegent people worship the rational mind, and they feel their lives have meaning. So apparently some people experience meaning internally, and some people experience it externally, and perhaps some do both.

I'm sure I don't know.


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29 Jul 2009, 12:05 pm

Carl Jung is my imaginary boyfriend. Please stop talking trash about him.


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MrMark
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29 Jul 2009, 12:07 pm

Awww... I wanna be your imaginary boyfriend! ;)


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Sand
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29 Jul 2009, 12:09 pm

Magnus wrote:
Carl Jung is my imaginary boyfriend. Please stop talking trash about him.


We're talking about a different Carl Jung. I hope yours is satisfactory in an imaginary way.



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29 Jul 2009, 10:09 pm

MrMark wrote:
Awww... I wanna be your imaginary boyfriend! ;)


Sweet...


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30 Jul 2009, 12:30 am

I guess a similar question would be, what motivates a person to get up, go to work, and deal with life.

Perhaps there are genetic factors at work as I've been in and out of hospitals for suicide attempts. My only meaning in life was boozing...until I went homeless. Even then, I had no motivation to live or function. Yet I've seen people who've functioned in life without the use of drugs, religion, food, spirituality as if they're wiring was completely driven to survive and succeed. But I can't be too sure of that since I didn't know them THAT well.

Part of it may be linked to depression and an emotional need that isn't being fullfilled aside from other genetic factors variables like mental illness?

It could be that those with this tendency are more highly imaginitive and emotional than others?


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30 Jul 2009, 9:59 am

I think that people who tend to search for meaning in things are probably more creative, emotional types. Thinking too much about things is not always beneficial to a person but that person chooses to do it anyways because he/she believes it is more important to know truth than to get along well in life.
I don't think it is wrong or more right to be deep and pensive but I do see the error in thinking that being happy is the goal and sole meaning to life. People with dulled senses are often the most happy. Ignorance is bliss...


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Sand
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30 Jul 2009, 10:05 am

Magnus wrote:
I think that people who tend to search for meaning in things are probably more creative, emotional types. Thinking too much about things is not always beneficial to a person but that person chooses to do it anyways because he/she believes it is more important to know truth than to get along well in life.
I don't think it is wrong or more right to be deep and pensive but I do see the error in thinking that being happy is the goal and sole meaning to life. People with dulled senses are often the most happy. Ignorance is bliss...


I don't know how you arrived at these generalities but it seems to me that people with dulled senses probably spend a good deal of their lives very confused and are ideal targets for scams, unhappy marriages, contemptuous kids, overbearing bosses and all the other fine pleasures of ignorance and unsubstantial fears.



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30 Jul 2009, 5:46 pm

I speak in generalities because this is no place to write a book. People who drink dull their senses and they do it to be more happy. ret*d people seem like the happiest bunch of sweethearts. If the meaning of life is to be happy then think of all the ways people try to make themselves happy. People who do not find meanings interesting strike me as dullards. Sometimes I act like a dumb blonde because life is more fun that way but I don't find life more meaningful when I engage in that sort of behavior. There is more to life than kicks. Money doesn't buy happiness, yadda yadda...


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