Why would someone as reasonable as David Duke be a KKK leade

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Roman
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05 Nov 2005, 10:20 pm

Bec wrote:
Roman wrote:
I read an article by David Duke, and I am totally astonished by how reasonable he sounds. After all he has absolutely nothing against blacks, all he wants is to whites to have the same right. There is nothing wrong with black ppl forming clubs for the sake of diversity, why can't whites do the same? There is nothing wrong with black pride, why can't you have white pride?

There is just one thing I don't get, why did he preside over cross burning? Yah, why would somoene as reasonable as David Duke preside over cross burning? Thats totally beyond me.

Relevent article: http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=32


The reason that he presides over cross burning is because he is racist. You don't actually believe them when they say all that 'separate, but equal' stuff, do you? The reason they say those sorts of things is to get people like you and me to believe them. They aren't reasonable - they are liars, and they are racists.


He doesn't say "separate but equal". He is NOT saying we aren't allowed to have mixed/multicultural clubs. All he says is that if there is at least one black only club, there has to be at least one white only club. If you are to call white only club "racist" then call black only club racist as well.

In other words he isn't asking for antyhign to be separate but equal. He just points out that there is anti-white prejudice. So the "only" thing he wants is to get rid of anti-white prejudice. Thats why I said he is reasonable.



Last edited by Roman on 06 Nov 2005, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Relyt
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06 Nov 2005, 12:15 am

this reminds me of something that happened at my school. see, there is a club called YBS (Young Black Scholars). i heard something about how someone got a committee together and tried to form a club which had a name somewhere along the lines of "Caucasion Knowledge Club" but the board turned it down, because if you say the name it kind of sounds like it would be spelled as "Kaucasion Knowledge Klub".

in the YBS club, they say that anyone can join, but they have to say that or else the club WILL be labeled as racist. but really only black people join it anyway.

you see bumper stickers all the time that say something like "Brown Pride" or "Proud to be black". if you ever saw a "White Pride" bumper sticker on a car, expect for its wheels to be gone.



Sean
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06 Nov 2005, 12:58 am

RobertN wrote:
The Paris riots are simply the beginning of the Revolution, Ascan. People have had enough of Capitalism. It has nothing to do with race.

We should be well armed enough here in the US to deal with such an insurrection.



Mithrandir
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06 Nov 2005, 3:25 am

I remember a name from long ago, I am not sure if it is correct:
Spangler.
The individual I am looking for won't come up in Google.

This guy, is a total racist in "Victorian" times and a British nationalist.
However, he is highly intelligent and referenced many times.

Can any of you find out?

Oh and here is Rudyard Kipling's the "White man's Burden"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke (1) your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel, (2)
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!



ascan
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06 Nov 2005, 3:25 am

Sean wrote:
We should be well armed enough here in the US to deal with such an insurrection.

Indeed. What's happening in France is a portent of the misery that will engulf the UK, soon. You see, currently we're enjoy an economic boom that has lasted for over a decade; there's full employment (apart from the unemployable),and things are about as good as they get. In respect of the incumbent government, the economic situation is generally fortuitous. However, their current policies are tipping the balance of fate towards inevitable doom, which is exacerbated by global economic pressures.

If you live in a city here you want to get out fast: particularly "ethnically diverse" ones. Economic woes breed discontent, and makes recruiting young Muslims to the cause of Jihad, so much easier! I can remember riots in the under-class areas of the city where I lived a number of years ago. The thought of being caught up in that frightens me, particularly as these days many of the rioters will be armed. The police will be their usual ineffectual selves, and the innocents caught up in it will be left to their fate. Those that do try to escape will probably get their skulls cracked open by a police force that serves a corrupt Labour government, rather than the people.



Klytus
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06 Nov 2005, 1:40 pm

ascan wrote:
Even racists can write good articles. I sometimes wonder which is the worst: "racism" or the systematic destruction of your country and it's peoples' way of life to make way for a bunch of foreigners hell bent on Jihad.

But that's obviously in a European context.


I agree. And that’s not en endorsement of David Duke in particular.
His ludicrous idea that Islamic terrorism is the fault of Israel and America’s support for Israel actually makes him sound like he’s got a lot in common with the far left.
His site looks to be full of objectionable material. It doesn’t surprise me to hear that he was a member of the KKK. He seems to be openly admitting to being racist, and unfortunately this undermines a valid point he makes about the willingness of society to see “white racism” everywhere and anywhere, and to blame it for all of society’s ills.

There’s this idea in society that if one can expose a person as a “racist”, it then automatically invalidates anything else they might say.
There was an incident in Britain recently where an ex-chat-show-host called Robert Kilroy-Silk had his show axed by the BBC for a newspaper article he’d written criticising the oppressive regimes of the Arab world. The police were required to waste hours watching clips of his old shows for evidence that he was a “racist”. What did they expect to find?
Compare this to the BBC’s treatment of Jenny Tonge. Jenny Tonge is a former Liberal Democrat MP who once said she would consider becoming a suicide bomber if she were Palestinian. For these remarks the Liberals sacked her from her position as a parliamentary spokesman for children's issues, but the BBC consequently decided to invite her onto radio and TV to discuss the Middle East. And there were no police enquiries over her terrorist sympathies, which apparently aren’t racist and so can be excused.

On the subject of Arab regimes, it’s interesting to note that their main export to the world after oil, namely Islamic fundamentalism, is not concerned with ideas of racial purity and superiority (their insane hatred of Jews notwithstanding). They recruit Arabs, Blacks, Thais, Pakistanis, and so on. Lately, in the interests of equal opportunity (or in the interests of not getting caught) Islamic fundamentalists have expressed a particular interest in recruiting whites. (OK, they probably aren’t going to bother recruiting Jews any time soon.)
And yet, in terms of numbers and global reach, Islamic fundamentalism is the most vicious, bigoted, dangerous and violent movement on the planet.

This is why I think, as a Brit, that the authorities in my country waste far too much time investigating far-right nationalist parties like the BNP. However objectionable people might find their views, they are not terrorists.

After the London bomb, a survey indicated that at least 6% of British Muslims identified with the terrorists. That’s over 100,000 people. What are they doing in Britain?

This is an example of multiculturalism at work. We're just supposed to accept the influx into Britain of thousands of people with no allegiance to the country whatsoever, people who would rather ally themselves with their nutty Imams and some 1,400 year-old religious text.
Most schoolchildren are taught about how advanced the Greeks and the Romans were compared to the barbarians of Northern Europe. No one ever claims these ideas are racist. So why can’t we apply them to the modern world?
In the last two-hundren years Britain has given the world the Industrial Revolution, Darwin, Maxwell, the computer, the steam locomotive, Adam Smith, JM Keynes, the electric motor and the light bulb (amongst other things).
The contribution of Britain to the modern world is unparalleled (except maybe by America, another English-speaking country, coincidentally).
And yet we’re supposed to believe that British culture is not really worth preserving, and that it’s really no better than the cultures of places that still have people practising honour killing, female genital mutilation and arranged marriages for 12-year old girls, places that still haven’t discovered the benefits of democracy, the separation of state and religion, and an independent media, and places whose contribution to scientific and technological advancement in the world in the last two-hundred years amounts to sod all.



ascan
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06 Nov 2005, 3:22 pm

Klytus wrote:
...And yet we’re supposed to believe that British culture is not really worth preserving, and that it’s really no better than the cultures of places that still have people practising honour killing, female genital mutilation and arranged marriages for 12-year old girls...

Yeah, it's crazy. You've only got to switch the TV news on to see how that's now becoming our adopted culture: look at that chap who got stabbed 46 times for getting his Muslim girlfriend up the duff — and that's just the latest one.

As for the Jews, I've never seen any evidence of that great conspiracy some of the far right accuse them of involvment in. To be honest, and I've said it before, I think Israel's got the right idea, generally speaking, when it comes to the Muslim world: military might. That's the only thing most Muslim countries understand, and respect. The Israelis also put their own people first, that's more than can be said for those who run this country. [Edit: most of the time, anyway]



vetivert
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06 Nov 2005, 3:36 pm

works both ways - after the 11th of september 2002, an 18 year old girl was battered to death with baseball bats, by a gang of white blokes, just because she was asian.

both that incident and the one you mention about the stabbing are horrifying, ascan. which is why we should be saying that any race hatred - or gender, or sexuality, or disability, or anything - is wrong.

divide and conquer is the surest way to win. while people argue about who's right, who's the best, who's ruining what, incidents like this will continue.

quite frankly, it sickens me. and, let's face it, extremists of any flavour are not renowned for their PR sense. i don't see it as me against the muslims/gays/men whatever. i see it as us against the real injustices in the world, not the scapegoats. and no, i am not saying that all muslims/gay people/women are wonderful, as that's just patronising, unrealistic and stupid. but neither do i think that all [insert outgroup here] should be defined only by the actions and opinions of others within that group.



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06 Nov 2005, 3:53 pm

I question also the logic behind the 6% (where this figure came from, and how valid the study, I don't know) who support the bombers wanting to be British citizens, and why we should harbour those among us who think its okay to bomb us on public transport for their cause. However, I have no problem whatsoever with the other 94% - which includes many of my friends, acquaintances, neighbours etc. I suspect that what they see as Islam differs somewhat from that of the Jihad inclined. I dislike seeing an entire community scapegoated in the way that the Muslim community in the UK has been when I know so many individuals in it who do not fit the stereotype. As for the BNP, they are racist shit-stirrers and nothing more. :evil: They seek to sow division based on legitimate grievances, twist them and use them for their own ends - and a riot caused by their agitation has them rubbing their hands in glee. They attempted to stir up trouble here in Keighley again by arranging a rally to coincide with Bonfire Night and Eid - their plans for chaos were thwarted luckily as a five mile exclusion zone was set up to prevent racist thugs from travelling to the town to stir up more trouble. Dialogue is the way forward for embattled urban communities, not sending 'em all back where they came from.


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ascan
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06 Nov 2005, 4:07 pm

vetivert wrote:
works both ways - after the 11th of september 2002, an 18 year old girl was battered to death with baseball bats, by a gang of white blokes, just because she was asian.

both that incident and the one you mention about the stabbing are horrifying, ascan. which is why we should be saying that any race hatred - or gender, or sexuality, or disability, or anything - is wrong.

divide and conquer is the surest way to win. while people argue about who's right, who's the best, who's ruining what, incidents like this will continue.

quite frankly, it sickens me. and, let's face it, extremists of any flavour are not renowned for their PR sense. i don't see it as me against the muslims/gays/men whatever. i see it as us against the real injustices in the world, not the scapegoats. and no, i am not saying that all muslims/gay people/women are wonderful, as that's just patronising, unrealistic and stupid. but neither do i think that all [insert outgroup here] should be defined only by the actions and opinions of others within that group.


Fair enough.

I've not said all Muslims are a problem, but there's plenty of evidence to say that Islam is. Klytus has explained that very well in several of his posts. It's true what you say about divide and conquer, but that shouldn't make us turn a blind eye to what is evidently wrong: and much of Muslim culture is, by the yardstick of our own culture, wrong. Like I've said before, there's a heavier duty of responsibility on the Muslim community to make comprises, than there is on us. This is our country and culture; although I'm atheist, I realise that it's a culture shaped by Christianity — and a good thing, too. Millions of people have died to make this country what it is, why squander that?

A look at France should portend what's round the corner here. Those will soon be our cities burning. It will happen. What should we all do, just shut our eyes, close our minds, and pretend there's not a problem? Because, there's one huge problem, and the softly-softly liberal approach just hasn't worked. Yes, I'd like to think we can all treat each other equally and with respect, but the reality is that the human mind is not wired up like that. Someone has to make some tough decisions, and do it soon. That, in my opinion, should be completely stopping immigration from Muslim countries, and encouraging those who don't want to live in our society, by our rules, to leave. That may not seem very nice, but what, do you think are the alternatives?



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06 Nov 2005, 4:09 pm

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ascan
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06 Nov 2005, 4:17 pm

duncvis wrote:
...I have no problem whatsoever with the other 94% - which includes many of my friends, acquaintances, neighbours etc.

But what proportion of that 94% sympathise in some way? Whenever I see Muslim "community leaders" being interviewed on TV about these events, there's rarely an unequivocal condemnation — there are always caveats.

duncvis wrote:
...luckily as a five mile exclusion zone was set up to prevent racist thugs from travelling to the town to stir up more trouble. Dialogue is the way forward for embattled urban communities, not sending 'em all back where they came from.

You mean a white-exclusion zone, maybe? Hmmm...

If they don't want to live by our laws and customs then they should be encouraged to leave. Those that do, I'd hope, would welcome that.



ascan
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06 Nov 2005, 4:23 pm

Ante wrote:
duncvis wrote:
Dialogue is the way forward for embattled urban communities, not sending 'em all back where they came from.


Yeah, I agree and also there needs to be encouragement of mixed-race neighbourhoods as opposed to segregated areas for non-white races. I think if the white people who have lived longer here in Britain talked more and were more civil and mixed in more with the people of races who've immigrated here later whether they be first generation immigrants or more deeply rooted, every race's more extreme characters would be marginalized and we'd have far less violence from all races.


Ante, you're going on the premise that it's the whites not doing the mixing. The problem's nothing to do with race or skin colour, it's culture: both sides are equally reluctant. You can't change that, it's how peoples minds are wired up.



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06 Nov 2005, 4:47 pm

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vetivert
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06 Nov 2005, 4:52 pm

having grown up in a multicultural area, lived in such areas all my life, and taught for 8 years in a predominately bengladeshi = muslim area, i really don't see this "them against us" thing. true, there were some buggers who were either racist or extremist, but they were in a tiny minority. and i'm talking about older teenage boys and their older brothers, from whom the extremists tend to recruit, i think you'll agree.

and there wasn't a huge amount of cultural mixing, either - people just respected each other



duncvis
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06 Nov 2005, 5:07 pm

ascan wrote:
duncvis wrote:
...luckily as a five mile exclusion zone was set up to prevent racist thugs from travelling to the town to stir up more trouble. Dialogue is the way forward for embattled urban communities, not sending 'em all back where they came from.

You mean a white-exclusion zone, maybe? Hmmm...


No, I mean a ban on rallies. This prevented an invasion by the Nazi BNP and the inevitable counter-demonstrations, disorder, potential for riots etc. That is what sparked the Bradford riots of 2001; outside troublemakers stirring people up.

This might be a better explanation: http://www.keighleynews.co.uk/bradford_ ... OPIN0.html


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