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makuranososhi
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25 Jul 2008, 2:19 pm

Mikomi wrote:
My daughter has Autism (possibly AS) and we're having a bit of a dilemma. She is nearly 5 years old. We don't seem to be able to convey to her when it is necessary to change privately. For example, she stripped to her skin right in her friend's kitchen when she was invited to use their pool. She also did this at a public pool when we announced it was time to go, before my husband or I could catch her (she's QUICK). We want to explain that she must seek privacy to change clothing, but we don't want her ashamed of her body either. Also, things don't carry situation to situation so I find myself repeating the same advice in each different situation. Any advice appreciated. I worry about how her social faux pas may come back to haunt her (everything from how her friends treat her to child predators). I'm becoming very protective as her social difficulties are becoming more apparent, and some of it is just painful to watch because...I've been there. I learned through some painful trial and error. Is there an easier path?


Using time-relevant words when discussing such things would likely be a good starting point; it is direct and provides an expectation and measure that be directly followed. Give time frames for when to do things so the repetition can build into familiar pattern. Vague statements can lead to unexpected results. I wouldn't fret at her age; if it was something she did spontaneously on her own, I might tend to watch more closely... but this reads like an impulse control issue dealing with understanding time and place; not a behavioral issue, per se.


M.


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2ukenkerl
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25 Jul 2008, 2:52 pm

ManErg wrote:
I still don't believe anybody should be dictating terms to a 5 year old on where they can and cannot change. Is this gender independant or just a girl thing? At this age the rules will be meaningless - although full of meaning to you. At age 10, perhaps, very different.


Actually, if I had kids, I would say the same to a boy OR girl. Of course, I would probably say the GIRL should cover her chest, and the boy should have something more substantial for shorts. HEY, at least she can show her belly button! In the US, that used to be bad form, and illegal on TV! Just look at the early "I dream of Jeanie" where she didn't have one! We ALSO don't have the rules talked about in the Bible, or the Koran! It seems like SUCH a little thing to ask.



ManErg
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25 Jul 2008, 6:34 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
Using time-relevant words


What precisely does this mean?? The meaning and relevance of words will depend on the specific child. There is no rulebook or fixed set of universal words that can be applied. (OK some people will try and sell you a set of standards but they are evil charlatans feathering their own nest)

You have to use your own judgement and improvise what is required at any one time. That's what we have these massive mega-billion connection super computers called brains for. It really shouldn't hurt.


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makuranososhi
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25 Jul 2008, 6:54 pm

"In thirty minutes", "Later after we go and change", etc - words that indicate timeframe, expectation, and schedule. As you'll see, I said that I thought not to fret at this age and that I didn't see it being a problem, especially in the context of the situations described. As for the rest of your response... I have no good idea what you're driving at; perhaps you would explain further?


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Aspie1
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25 Jul 2008, 7:14 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
Actually, if I had kids, I would say the same to a boy OR girl. Of course, I would probably say the GIRL should cover her chest, and the boy should have something more substantial for shorts. HEY, at least she can show her belly button! In the US, that used to be bad form, and illegal on TV! Just look at the early "I dream of Jeanie" where she didn't have one! We ALSO don't have the rules talked about in the Bible, or the Koran! It seems like SUCH a little thing to ask.

So true! I would also teach my kids about nudity in front of the opposite sex. If I had a daughter, I would not bring her to a men's locker room, unless she was 4 or younger. I'd also explain to her that it's somewhat OK for her to change in front of her mother when at home or in a locker room, but not OK in front of me (except in emergencies). If I had a son, the concept of changing would be reversed, and bringing him to the locker room wouldn't be an issue. Either way, I think it's an important lesson to know.



Mikomi
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27 Jul 2008, 12:09 am

To those who offered sound advice, I thank you.

To those who felt it necessary to make scathing opinionated comments, bear in mind that I wasn't the one who invented social norms. I am an aspie myself, don't care much for the whole dealing with people scene in the first place. I forever made social faux pas (still do, frequently) and spent a lot of time wishing someone would have explained things to me before I found myself in humilating situations. My aim is to avoid my child ending up feeling the way I did, to give her the social maps I didn't have. NTs assume you "just know", and I don't feel like my kid should have to come with a disclaimer (oh BTW, my kid is autistic, so forgive her if she strips naked in your kitchen). Yes, five year olds aren't socially adept, autism or not, but I don't see other kids her age naked in public. Do you?

The last time I made the error of asking advice on WP (another section), I got flamed. Now I post here and have someone imply that I am hammering my child's ego out of her because I don't want her to end up humiliated? That is asinine, I am trying to PROTECT her ego by helping her learn social norms. However, the desire to post another damn thing here has successfully been hammered out of ME.

I don't need this s**t.


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makuranososhi
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27 Jul 2008, 12:10 am

Sorry that there are those who launch to diatribe instead of offering suggestions - have you found any that seem to be relevant to you?


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DW_a_mom
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27 Jul 2008, 2:42 pm

Mikomi wrote:
To those who offered sound advice, I thank you.

To those who felt it necessary to make scathing opinionated comments, bear in mind that I wasn't the one who invented social norms. I am an aspie myself, don't care much for the whole dealing with people scene in the first place. I forever made social faux pas (still do, frequently) and spent a lot of time wishing someone would have explained things to me before I found myself in humilating situations. My aim is to avoid my child ending up feeling the way I did, to give her the social maps I didn't have. NTs assume you "just know", and I don't feel like my kid should have to come with a disclaimer (oh BTW, my kid is autistic, so forgive her if she strips naked in your kitchen). Yes, five year olds aren't socially adept, autism or not, but I don't see other kids her age naked in public. Do you?

The last time I made the error of asking advice on WP (another section), I got flamed. Now I post here and have someone imply that I am hammering my child's ego out of her because I don't want her to end up humiliated? That is asinine, I am trying to PROTECT her ego by helping her learn social norms. However, the desire to post another damn thing here has successfully been hammered out of ME.

I don't need this sh**.


I am sorry that you feel this way.

I remember the first time I ever posted on an Aspie forum, one that is far more activist than this one, and I found the responses to be a combination of misunderstanding and complete tangents ... and then realized that it was one heck of a lot like talking to my son at times. Some of the posters here come with strong personal agendas and perceptions, and too often falsely read things into posts that aren't there as a result. I figure that sorting through it, not letting it get to me, and learning how to turn it into positive conversation is all good practice for those times I can't get onto the same wavelength with my own child. And while one might think that Aspies should have an easier time understanding meaning with other Aspies, it does not seem to be the case. The conflicts may actually be stronger. I am sure it is frustrating for someone on the spectrum to encounter misunderstanding in the one place they would assume people could "get" it, and I am so sorry it is that way, but I hope you don't give up. Ignore the negative comments that you know don't apply - just like you probably have to in real life.

Social convention is a tough thing. And I think that is true for many people, AS or not. Some figure that if we all start to ignore it, it is more likely to change. To some extent that is true but, for the most part, it really isn't that simple. I agree with you that standards of decency are ones that are usually best not tempted, for whether or not they really make sense, failing to follow them can cause real hardship on the rebel.

I hope that some ideas in the thread were a help to you, and I wish you the best of luck with your daughter.


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DentArthurDent
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01 Aug 2008, 9:11 pm

n4mwd wrote:
Make sure you take this POLL.

In any event, like the others have said, its normal at that age. She should not be scolded or you run the risk of causing her to develop a body complex. Just explain calmly that "When you don't see other people getting undressed then its probably not the right place for it." Essentially, you are telling her that there is a right place and a right time for everything. Never tell her that what she did was wrong. Tell her that striping naked in front of other people can sometimes embarrass THE OTHER PEOPLE and that she should not want to upset them like that. This puts the blame on the other people and not her.

A lot of kids are born nudists. That's a good thing. But they do need to be taught the difference between appropriate and inappropriate places to be nude.

I am a nurse and it seems that the vast majority of kids these days in the US are quite the opposite. Their parents have scolded them for being in the buff to the point where when they have to go to the hospital, they are so shy, they have to be sedated in order to do certain procedures that require nudity. Problems, especially with boys, go overlooked as a result.

She most certainly sounds like an awesome little girl. I am certain you will be able to solve this problem without causing her to develop a negative body complex.


:hail: :hail:


Totally agree


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ManErg
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05 Aug 2008, 3:15 pm

Sorry if you've been offended, WP does have much, much more than the usual number of people with unique opinions (and me too!) that they want to inflict at any opportunity. 8O

Also there are people from all over the world here. So you can expect some contrary views from those in different countries. In my 2nd post, I tried to communicate that this is a very country-specific thing. I thought we were inhibited in the UK, but it sounds like you've taken the lead over us. I can assure you that these days, nobody here bats an eyelid about children aged 5, 6, 7 maybe even 8 changing on a beach or wherever in full view of everyone.

And I do have my agenda as due to strict catholic upbringing whereby the body was considered the root of sin and never to be revealed to anyone, I have suffered from terrible body shame. It's not to be trivialised and the post by n4mwd shows how life limiting it can be. Never being able to change around other people means no sports, no swimming, no beach, no close relationships. I've more or less dealt with it now, but body shame probably ruined my teens and twenties as much as AS. When given a clear rule, I tend to take it and run with it...... :(

I do understand that you are in another culture and you have to respect its ways. WP is it's own culture and is evolving its own ways :)


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05 Aug 2008, 3:20 pm

Mom explained it to me this way:

Naked is what you were when you were born (intrinsic helplessness is implied).

Nude is what you are when you have no clothes on, and you're doing something nice (such as when taking a bath or shower).

Nekkid is what you are when you have no clothes on, and you're doing something naughty (skinny-dipping in the neighbor's pool - alone or with others).


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HDLMatchette
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22 Feb 2015, 10:56 pm

there are some family orientated nudist places, if that would help her



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22 Feb 2015, 11:18 pm

Ugh zombie thread.


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