Women and their desire for kids

Page 1 of 3 [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

crackedpleasures
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,367
Location: currently Belgium, longing for the Middle East

25 Jul 2008, 2:09 pm

As someone who has never had any interest in having a family and have, when growing older, developed an even stronger dislike for the idea, I obviously need a girlfriend who is equally sure about not having children.

The thing is, it seems quite hard to find. I know plenty of older women without children but when talking to girls of my own age (and thus potential partners) it seems all are either undecided or wanting kids. I am against the idea of approaching them for dating, because breaking up after a while together is much harder than letting her go before the relationship properly started. And I have several reasons for not wanting kids, I think the odds of changing my mind are very very low, so I rather not risk dating a girl who may want a family because the odds would be too big that her desire for kids and my non-desire would build a wall between us.

So why are all women so keen on reproducing? And where do you do find the girls who aren't?

(PS: I usually ask this sort of thing straight away during a first date. May sound odd, but as I said: I rather step back before a relationship started, rather than a much more painful break-up after having spent a long while together. I already had it once or twice that a girl I liked was first undecided but then said she wanted a family shortly after, I then stepped back but by then I was already in love quite a lot and sort of doubt if it wasn't better to switch to friends-only modus from the very start... Hence why I am always trying to find out about family desires from the very beginning)


_________________
Do what Thou wilt shal be the whole of the Law.
Love is the Law, Love under Will. And...
every man and every woman is a star
(excerpt from The Book of the Law - Aleister Crowley)

"Od lo avda tikvateinu" (excerpt from the Israeli hymn)


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

25 Jul 2008, 2:22 pm

we are out there crackedpleasures. I didn't want children, and the only child I had was taken from me, and people can call me cold and unfeeling, but to this day I feel it was best for the child. Women who are not interested having children are few and far between, but we are out there.

Merle


_________________
Alis volat propriis
State Motto of Oregon


Aspie_Chav
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2006
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,931
Location: Croydon

25 Jul 2008, 2:25 pm

crackedpleasures wrote:
So why are all women so keen on reproducing? And where do you do find the girls who aren't?



Because if they didn’t, there would have no way of passing their “don’t want no kids” genes to the next generation. Even if a girl does not want a kid consciously mother nature has other plans .One is to give them a high sex drive so they will have a kid by accident.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 57,012
Location: Stendec

25 Jul 2008, 2:26 pm

crackedpleasures wrote:
So why are all women so keen on reproducing?

Because their entire physiology is set up for it. Plus, they have this unpleasant 'monthly reminder' that while they could be pregnant, they are not.

Besides, once a woman has a child, she can lock the father in to providing monetary support for 18 to 21 years without ever having to see him again.

crackedpleasures wrote:
And where do you do find the girls who aren't?

Convents and retirement homes.


_________________
 
• Veritas Illuminata • Semper Illuminans •


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

25 Jul 2008, 2:37 pm

Fnord wrote:
crackedpleasures wrote:
So why are all women so keen on reproducing?

Because their entire physiology is set up for it. Plus, they have this unpleasant 'monthly reminder' that while they could be pregnant, they are not.

Besides, once a woman has a child, she can lock the father in to providing monetary support for 18 to 21 years without ever having to see him again.

crackedpleasures wrote:
And where do you do find the girls who aren't?

Convents and retirement homes.


I can sure tell YOU are not a woman! Ya' got no 'theory of mind' about a woman, either!


_________________
Alis volat propriis
State Motto of Oregon


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 57,012
Location: Stendec

25 Jul 2008, 2:52 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Fnord wrote:
crackedpleasures wrote:
So why are all women so keen on reproducing?

Because their entire physiology is set up for it. Plus, they have this unpleasant 'monthly reminder' that while they could be pregnant, they are not.

Besides, once a woman has a child, she can lock the father in to providing monetary support for 18 to 21 years without ever having to see him again.

crackedpleasures wrote:
And where do you do find the girls who aren't?

Convents and retirement homes.

I can sure tell YOU are not a woman! Ya' got no 'theory of mind' about a woman, either!

As long as you women keep us men in the dark about what really motivates you, we're going to come up with theories of our own.


_________________
 
• Veritas Illuminata • Semper Illuminans •


sinsboldly
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,488
Location: Bandon-by-the-Sea, Oregon

25 Jul 2008, 3:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Fnord wrote:
crackedpleasures wrote:
So why are all women so keen on reproducing?

Because their entire physiology is set up for it. Plus, they have this unpleasant 'monthly reminder' that while they could be pregnant, they are not.

Besides, once a woman has a child, she can lock the father in to providing monetary support for 18 to 21 years without ever having to see him again.

crackedpleasures wrote:
And where do you do find the girls who aren't?

Convents and retirement homes.

I can sure tell YOU are not a woman! Ya' got no 'theory of mind' about a woman, either!

As long as you women keep us men in the dark about what really motivates you, we're going to come up with theories of our own.


now, that just makes me laugh! Women know what motivates women, and women know what motivates men. Why is it so difficult for men to know what motivates men and for men to know what motivates women?
I never signed anything at birth stating I would withhold womanly information from men, it is no vast world wide woman conspiracy to keep 'the truth' from anyone, male or female.

Merle


_________________
Alis volat propriis
State Motto of Oregon


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 57,012
Location: Stendec

25 Jul 2008, 3:19 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Fnord wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Fnord wrote:
crackedpleasures wrote:
So why are all women so keen on reproducing?

Because their entire physiology is set up for it. Plus, they have this unpleasant 'monthly reminder' that while they could be pregnant, they are not.

Besides, once a woman has a child, she can lock the father in to providing monetary support for 18 to 21 years without ever having to see him again.

crackedpleasures wrote:
And where do you do find the girls who aren't?

Convents and retirement homes.

I can sure tell YOU are not a woman! Ya' got no 'theory of mind' about a woman, either!

As long as you women keep us men in the dark about what really motivates you, we're going to come up with theories of our own.


now, that just makes me laugh! Women know what motivates women, and women know what motivates men. Why is it so difficult for men to know what motivates men and for men to know what motivates women?
I never signed anything at birth stating I would withhold womanly information from men, it is no vast world wide woman conspiracy to keep 'the truth' from anyone, male or female.

Merle

Then ... why are all women so keen on reproducing? Remember, withold nothing...


_________________
 
• Veritas Illuminata • Semper Illuminans •


Phasianoraptor_hirvisaloi
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 27
Location: Oulu, Finland

25 Jul 2008, 3:53 pm

I find the idea of human reproduction pretty avoidable, partially because of the overpopulation that there already is and even stronger for the fact that my potential children would certainly inherit AS or at least its genes from me - with all its mental impairments. If someone in the future meets similar difficulty in life because of AS, I don't want to be responsible for it.

For these reasons, childlessness is to me more than just an adherence. It's a commitment over which I don't negotiate.



No_YOU_get_over_it
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 148

25 Jul 2008, 4:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
As long as you women keep us men in the dark about what really motivates you, we're going to come up with theories of our own.


sinsboldly, don't tell them! this could get really entertaining!


Seriously though. There's so much social pressure on us, it takes an act of g-d for most of us to realize we even have the option of not sprogging.

Realizing my ex would make a horrible father freed me from the feeling of having to obtain curtain climbers of my own. Of course, it took me years to make the jump to thinking maybe I deserved a better partner than someone I think would be an awful parent, but I'm slow on some counts.

Recently looked up a childhood acquaintance on FaceBook ... and she's got 6 kids. Good for her, but that's what'll happen to me if I'm a horrible person in this life and reincarnation turns out to be true after all. Unlike Merle, I have =no= idea what would inspire a woman to have kids. Motivate, as in pressure from outside oneself, sure. But an actual drive from within? Other than hormones (which are relatively easy to manipulate)? Not a clue.


_________________
- NYGOI

NB: contents of above post represent my opinion at time of post only. YMMV, NAYY, and most importantly, IALBTC!


Diamond_Head
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 117
Location: Kauai, Hawaii

25 Jul 2008, 4:59 pm

I think the urge to reproduce is inherently strong in many people, otherwise the human race obviously couldn't have been continued up to this point (since the original dawn of mankind).

However, the current world rate of reproduction is pretty unsustainable in terms of overpopulation.

Some people (like myself) never felt one way or the other about having kids. Some people can't imagine living life without eventually having a child, and some others would rather chew on broken glass than procreate.
I think you'll find people of every age group (both female and male) that fall into all three catagories.

From talking to people (or at least friends of mine who are around my own age group, early to mid 20s) who have had children or want to have children, it seems to be some inherent drive that nobody seems to be able to fully explain in analytical detail. Often seems to be a "I want one just because I want one" mindset.

However, there are some outliers. I have a female friend who recently had a kid at 19, but always wanted one since she was around 16 years old, because she always wanted something to love her unconditionally and never leave her (she had a rough life when she was younger). In addition, a guy I used to work with wanted to have at least 3 or 4 sons because he has a "I want a miniature version of myself so I can teach him how to play sports, drive a car, etc etc etc" type mentality. Everybody has individual reasons.



LePetitPrince
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,464

25 Jul 2008, 5:10 pm

Phasianoraptor_hirvisaloi wrote:
I find the idea of human reproduction pretty avoidable, partially because of the overpopulation that there already is and even stronger for the fact that my potential children would certainly inherit AS or at least its genes from me - with all its mental impairments. If someone in the future meets similar difficulty in life because of AS, I don't want to be responsible for it.

For these reasons, childlessness is to me more than just an adherence. It's a commitment over which I don't negotiate.


I just think like you. No need to spread more autism genes and Earth is already overpopulated by humans.



Haliphron
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,980

25 Jul 2008, 6:23 pm

crackedpleasures wrote:
So why are all women so keen on reproducing?


Because if they werent our species would die out! :lol: What makes you think that (Most)Men arent keep on reproducing?

sinsboldly wrote:
Why is it so difficult for men to know what motivates women?

Merle


Speaking from personal experience, I struggled for YEARS trying to figure out womens motives (whereas mens motives were always plain as day to me). The trouble with women(for me at least) is that they are SO bloody indirect! Because Im an Aspie Ive had a lot of confusion over people being indirect with me or blatantly dishonest towards me. I think thats the main reason why many men get confused over what makes women tick is that most women are NOT direct. Furthermore, I have to be honest and say that Ive noticed that NT women tend to be MUCH more dishonest than men in general. Perhaps they act this way in order to protect themselves cuz they feel vulnerable since biologically speaking-being female is a very insecure position to be in. Also, to the OP, a man can father children throughout his adult life but women have a limited window of oppertunity from the onset of puberty until their 40s when they can have children. If they wait too long its pretty much too late, so they have to start thinking about it and being motivated to do it much earlier on in life then us guys.



crackedpleasures
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,367
Location: currently Belgium, longing for the Middle East

25 Jul 2008, 6:39 pm

The thing is, to me it is not negotiable. I never felt interest in having kids, it would disrupt the travel lifestyle I am so keen on, the child would likely have a form of autism as well, and most important reason: I sort of dislike the company of children quite strongly. I have nothing against kids but I don't like them near me because I get nervous and annoyed easily by kids.

So to me, not wanting children is a basic criteria for a girlfriend, and while I met several women who remained childless they were all in their 40s. All girls I have felt attracted to and approached were not really sure in the beginning but after a while leaned more to "yes, I want one". Which is quite difficult because by then I was in love already and I sort of had to take a step back, which is easier when you haven't shared any moments yet and just met each other. So basically I should ask at the first dates and even step back if she is uncertain about the subject... A young woman (age 20-30 in my case) that is determined to not have children is quite difficult to find :? Also, some look at me with evil eyes when I say I dislike the company of kids, as if it'd make me some sort of bad person. I think I am just being honest ; and I'd never ever hurt a child whatsoever or so, so why would simply not liking to be surrounded by children make me any unkind person?


_________________
Do what Thou wilt shal be the whole of the Law.
Love is the Law, Love under Will. And...
every man and every woman is a star
(excerpt from The Book of the Law - Aleister Crowley)

"Od lo avda tikvateinu" (excerpt from the Israeli hymn)


Aspie1
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,733
Location: United States

25 Jul 2008, 6:41 pm

Diamond_Head wrote:
However, there are some outliers. I have a female friend who recently had a kid at 19, but always wanted one since she was around 16 years old, because she always wanted something to love her unconditionally and never leave her (she had a rough life when she was younger). In addition, a guy I used to work with wanted to have at least 3 or 4 sons because he has a "I want a miniature version of myself so I can teach him how to play sports, drive a car, etc etc etc" type mentality. Everybody has individual reasons.

8O 8O 8O :? :? These are not healthy attitudes! I can't believe that this is what motivates people, to have kids. Both of these statements have the phrase "I want" in them. The woman in this scenario wants to make someone fully dependent on her, which probably means that she won't give the child much independence. The kid will end up living at home at age 30. The man in this scenario wants to make someone in his image (playing God, perhaps?), which means that the child will probably be forced to do things he doesn't want to do. If the kid won't turn out athletic, <sarcasm>we all know what good relationship</sarcasm> that will be.

My recommendation to the people in question is to get a dog. The woman should get one of the lap dog breeds, so she can enjoy its loyalty and unconditional love. The man should get one of the active dog breeds, so he can enjoy its athletic skills and results from training. An average dog has the intellectual capacity of a 6-year-old child, which would fit these people's needs quite nicely. In addition, most dogs can communicate with humans on a decent level, so lack of companionship won't be an issue. But most importantly, dogs' emotions aren't complex enough to feel the toxic effects of codependency or manipulation.

The only reason to have a child should be a personal willingness to give one's time, money, effort, and love to another human being; and this should be the most important reason. The reasons shown above only lower a child---a living, breathing, sentient human being---to the status of a pet, or worse, personal property that can be molded to one's wishes. I realize that I sound like I'm attacking, but the selfishness in the bolded statements really hit a nerve.



MissConstrue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 17,052
Location: Missouri

25 Jul 2008, 7:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Fnord wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Fnord wrote:
crackedpleasures wrote:
So why are all women so keen on reproducing?

Because their entire physiology is set up for it. Plus, they have this unpleasant 'monthly reminder' that while they could be pregnant, they are not.

Besides, once a woman has a child, she can lock the father in to providing monetary support for 18 to 21 years without ever having to see him again.

crackedpleasures wrote:
And where do you do find the girls who aren't?

Convents and retirement homes.

I can sure tell YOU are not a woman! Ya' got no 'theory of mind' about a woman, either!

As long as you women keep us men in the dark about what really motivates you, we're going to come up with theories of our own.


now, that just makes me laugh! Women know what motivates women, and women know what motivates men. Why is it so difficult for men to know what motivates men and for men to know what motivates women?
I never signed anything at birth stating I would withhold womanly information from men, it is no vast world wide woman conspiracy to keep 'the truth' from anyone, male or female.

Merle

Then ... why are all women so keen on reproducing? Remember, withold nothing...


Is that your theory?

All I can say for myself is I've never been keen on reproducing or plan to have children but that's my decision as it's also a guy's decision. Your assumption is pretty narrow as it is untrue. One thing I tend to notice too much of on these Love and Dating threads is some of you guys and not all but a lot of you seem to already have women figured out which is probably why we seem to come off as indirect. It's a little hard to take anything with "statements" like this quoted one serious enough. When you decide on whimsical niches such as thing, that famous phrase comes to mind and that is "you can't teach an old dog new tricks."

So what's the use of being direct if a guy "knows all he wants to about women?"


_________________
I live as I choose or I will not live at all.
~Delores O’Riordan