Why does social sadism seem to be acceptable to most people?

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ed
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02 Aug 2008, 1:01 pm

To understand why we are as we are, try watching any of the various nature shows about apes. We inherently possess these traits.

Perhaps we aspies are nature's attempt to correct that situation :lol:


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corroonb
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02 Aug 2008, 1:17 pm

Maybe we're the next stage in evolution ; the logical ape.

:wink:



Aurore
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02 Aug 2008, 1:21 pm

This is a very important topic. I too sometimes was sucked into this due to my knack for imitation, but fortunately since then have stopped.
Something that bothers me very much is when then people actually give sympathy to the social sadist, saying they must have really low self esteem to do that to people. But studies show that people with a grandiose sense of self are those who are more likely to bully.
In school when I was young this was always the thing: 'Oh, he's only doing that to you because he wants to feel better about himself.'
I know they can't diagnose it until adulthood, but sociopathy starts off pretty early if you ask me.


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04 Aug 2008, 5:03 pm

corroonb wrote:
I have frequently experienced abuse of the verbal or emotional kind throughout my 23 years of existence and I've come to the conclusion that verbal abuse and bullying are an instinctive human behaviour. I can think of no other reason for the lack of a more scientific term being applied to the behaviour than bullying. I think of this behaviour as "social sadism" as the bullies quite clearly derive some sort of pleasure from tormenting others. This may not be the same as physical torture but the pain caused in many cases is just as serious.

Why are such bullies and sadists not charged criminally? The damage done often extends to suicide, low self-esteem and lifelong difficulties.

I can only conclude that society in general finds such behaviour to be acceptable. I myself used to engage in some behaviour of this sort because I have a tendency to imitate and take my social cues from others. I have since stopped this.

I do not want this to be yet another aspie versus nt thread, I would prefer an unemotional discussion about this problem and some ways to address it. I don't think that every human is a natural bully but that many seem to either tolerate it or engage in it. What do you think about this?

You're quite right - bullying is natural human behaviour.
It's hardwired.

Bullying is nature's way of enforcing the social hierarchy in social species.
It occurs in a variety of mammalian aswell as social primate species.

ASD's are nature's way of creating a self-enforcing social hierarchy.
NT's at the top, autistics at the bottom.

Everybody is on the autistic spectrum.
If you're hyper-NT, you're at one end - and if classically autistic, you're at the other.

Social species have evolved in this way to minimise infighting for finite resources (territory, food, mates, etc).

Seems so obvious and yet I've never heard anyone propound this idea.

Bullies bully to release the aggressive tension engendered by autistic behaviours.

Harsh, but it benefits the tribe as a whole.
But then, Nature never was benign.
Nature is just what works.



sartresue
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04 Aug 2008, 7:47 pm

ed wrote:
To understand why we are as we are, try watching any of the various nature shows about apes. We inherently possess these traits.

Perhaps we aspies are nature's attempt to correct that situation :lol:


Ag-ape topic

This is an interesting idea... :chin:


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Snowfork
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27 May 2010, 12:01 am

Hi, I wish to be neither criticized nor complimented for what I am, but I will admit that I am a sadist similar to what you are describing here.
I do not necessarily bully or assert myself physically. I use tactics akin to psychological warfare to get what I want from people and I feel very little need to be nice to them.
I do not want to know them and I feel others can be manipulated to do what I want without wasting my time becoming their "friend."
I am told by others that I scare them and I derive pleasure/joy from hearing them say it. Instead of trying to change that impression, I reinforce their notions and this makes me happier knowing their fear will escalate.
I have trouble deriving joy from activities that most people enjoy and this reinforces a sadists desire to inflict pain on others so he/she may too feel joy frequently.

My girlfriend is a willing masochist that indulges and promotes my sadism through approval and she refuses to tell me I'm wrong to be a sadist or think in a sadistic fashion.
I have not told many people, even my friends that I am a sadist because, just like many psychological disorders, it is misunderstood.
Most people think of sexual sadism as applying to all sadists.



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27 May 2010, 1:03 am

Snowfork~

Are you implying there's a qualitative difference between sexual sadism
and non-sexual sadism?

If so....qualitative in terms of morality or what exactly?


Though I lean towards "hard" determinism...I must say I do so reluctantly
on the emotional level.

This just might be the most depressing and frightening time in human
history.

There is no more "good" or "evil".....there are no morals or ethics.

There is no punishment for the "wicked" or rewards for the "virtuous".

No wonder there's so many depressed and nihilistic people out there.

Because none of these things apply anymore....god is dead and Adolph Hitler
and everybody's saintly old granny are both in the same oblivious
nothingness.

There is nothing anymore but misunderstood sick people like these
two misunderstood sick people:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_B ... Roy_Norris


Welcome to the universe....a place where nothing is true and everything
is permitted.

A place unfit for LIFE if there ever was one.



liloleme
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27 May 2010, 1:13 am

I read somewhere that most humor centers around making fun of someone else. I always used to wonder why people couldnt just leave me alone. Actually, I still wonder that.
I never did anything to anyone yet they sought me out to pick at me because it amused them. I like to think that someday people like that get what they deserve....makes me feel a little better anyway!



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27 May 2010, 1:23 am

I used the threat of violence to keep bullies at bay. I was bullied from kindergarden to tenth grade. I had a growth spurt I got taller and started putting on more muscle. My gym teacher was getting more and more pissed at me for not sticking up for myself he told me if I waited for one of the smaller bullies to start something beat him to pulp in front everyone in class. I was in social studies when this little idiot decided to spit on me when he walked by. So I jumped up grabbed by the arm and neck I forced him to the ground where I beat the hell out of him. He did not even fight back, I got suspended for two weeks but hey I got away from those idots so to me it was like an award for standing up for myself. I am prety sure it was the threat of being publicly humilated in front of everybody with getting their butt kicked in the middle of class that kept the bullies at bay. Last two years of high school went well for me, but I still hated going due to all the people and the way they looked at me. I so envey homeschooled children.

Things that were said to me way back in the 80's still hurt me in the new century. :cry: It is one of the reasons I avoid people like the plague. Hell, even as an adult I was getting treated like a pariah at all the jobs I ever had. :x Its not really worth being around people at all sometimes.



Horus
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27 May 2010, 1:44 am

liloleme wrote

Quote:
I like to think that someday people like that get what they deserve....makes me feel a little better anyway!



Sadly....what we like to believe and reality are often mutually exclusive.


My own beliefs mirror those stated by the William Kinderman character (played
by George C. Scott) in the Exorcist III.

Kinderman was responding to the demon possessing a murderous
mental patient after the demon asked Kinderman if he "helped his
unbelief".

"Yes, I believe... I believe in death. I believe in disease. I believe in injustice and inhumanity and torture and anger and hate... I believe in murder. I believe in pain. I believe in cruelty and infidelity. I believe in slime and stink and every crawling, putrid thing... every possible ugliness and corruption, you son-of-a-bitch!! ! I BELIEVE... in you."

Like the world-weary cop Kinderman, I hate these beliefs with every fiber of my being...but it's impossible for me to view reality any other way.



"The world is hell, and men are on one hand the tormented souls and
on the other the devils in it"

Arthur Schopenhauer



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27 May 2010, 10:15 am

I also belive in the "ape stage" explanation. Society has come to accept sociopathic ways because it establishes a "dominance in the tribe".

But finally society is starting to rethink everything and sees sociopathy as a defect.


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Keeno
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27 May 2010, 10:35 am

Aspies are not exactly exempt from being bullies, although when they are it nearly always is a reaction or backlash to unfair treatment they themselves have experienced.



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27 May 2010, 12:19 pm

marshall wrote:
Just think about the violent history of humanity and then consider the fact that our genetic makeup hasn’t really changed. The desire to fit in is so strong that people will suppress their personal moral judgment in order to join in group cruelty. If enough people partake in cruelty against specific groups or individuals (think racism) cruelty becomes culturally acceptable against those groups or individuals. It is quite literally “monkey see monkey do”. People are for the most part pathetic sheep. Usually it takes a very forceful message to convince society to question it’s behaviors.


yeah, i mean the Salem witchhunts really were only a few lifetimes ago ... our genes have changed pretty much zip.



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27 May 2010, 1:11 pm

corroonb wrote:
Maybe we're the next stage in evolution ; the logical ape.

:wink:
No, we're not.
Sometimes I think people with autism were specifically designed NOT to procreate.
And psychopaths are designed specifically to procreate a lot.
And it's obvious who people seem to prefer.
There's no such thing as a 'mild' sociopath.
Everything about psychopaths is extreme.
Their lying, their aggressiveness, their ability to appear normal, all way more developed and more extreme than most people.

And, to be honest, I too have a need to get physical with people.
To hurt them, in a way.



Snowfork
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27 May 2010, 5:33 pm

Horus wrote:
Snowfork~

Are you implying there's a qualitative difference between sexual sadism
and non-sexual sadism?

If so....qualitative in terms of morality or what exactly?


There are sadists that derive joy from (i.e. happiness) from inflicting pain and there are sexual sadists that get aroused sexually by inflicting pain.

ursaminor wrote:
And, to be honest, I too have a need to get physical with people.
To hurt them, in a way.


I agree with you and sympathize with your needs