Why does social sadism seem to be acceptable to most people?

Page 3 of 4 [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,399

27 May 2010, 9:22 pm

corroonb wrote:

Why are such bullies and sadists not charged criminally?


They can be charged if they take it too far in some circumstances. Most the time, what bullies need is some time with a counselor or a positive role model in their life; a mentor.

As far as group dynamics goes, there isn't much you can do about the put-downs group think. Friends will bond with each other by making fun of someone they feel is somehow worthy of their ridicule.



Snowfork
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 5

27 May 2010, 11:06 pm

corroonb wrote:

Why are such bullies and sadists not charged criminally?


In my experiences, social sadism is frowned upon but many adults do it too so nobody makes laws against it. They expect that most people either die or grow out of it.



Horus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302
Location: A rock in the milky way

27 May 2010, 11:51 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote


Quote:
Most the time, what bullies need is some time with a counselor or a positive role model in their life; a mentor.



I'm glad you said "most of the time". Counseling and positive role models will do
no good in regards to bullies who are defacto sociopaths.



conundrum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,010
Location: third rock from one of many suns

28 May 2010, 12:00 am

marshall wrote:
Just think about the violent history of humanity and then consider the fact that our genetic makeup hasn’t really changed. The desire to fit in is so strong that people will suppress their personal moral judgment in order to join in group cruelty. If enough people partake in cruelty against specific groups or individuals (think racism) cruelty becomes culturally acceptable against those groups or individuals. It is quite literally “monkey see monkey do”. People are for the most part pathetic sheep. Usually it takes a very forceful message to convince society to question it’s behaviors.


To take a less extreme example, studies have been done in which people would say they liked something they actually didn't (e.g., a product) just because the majority of the group they were in said they liked it too. Many people are desperate to be accepted and will go along with just about anything to gain this acceptance. Sadly, this can and does extend as far as victimizing someone just because "everyone else" is doing it. :roll:

How to stop this? Make it "unpopular" to pick on (insert name of group/individual here). I think that's where the notion of "political correctness" comes from. Unfortunately, as we all know, it's not really that simple.



ALacount
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Posts: 252

28 May 2010, 2:32 pm

Have you ever made a joke at a freinds expense?
It's like a weird version of that I think.....
only more sadistic.....



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,399

28 May 2010, 2:42 pm

Horus wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote


Quote:
Most the time, what bullies need is some time with a counselor or a positive role model in their life; a mentor.



I'm glad you said "most of the time". Counseling and positive role models will do
no good in regards to bullies who are defacto sociopaths.


I should have typed "school aged bullies". To me, bullying in the schools is unacceptable and it should be stopped with no excuses made. If it isn't stopped, the bullies might become sociopaths, later. Bullying is a signal that someone is in some sort of trouble and needs help.



Horus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,302
Location: A rock in the milky way

28 May 2010, 3:34 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Horus wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote


Quote:
Most the time, what bullies need is some time with a counselor or a positive role model in their life; a mentor.



I'm glad you said "most of the time". Counseling and positive role models will do
no good in regards to bullies who are defacto sociopaths.


I should have typed "school aged bullies". To me, bullying in the schools is unacceptable and it should be stopped with no excuses made. If it isn't stopped, the bullies might become sociopaths, later. Bullying is a signal that someone is in some sort of trouble and needs help.



I think in many, if not all cases, sociopathy is due to neurobiological (including
genetics ofcourse) causes and it's as *natural* to some people as a cleft palate.

Unlike a cleft palate...it's really not something we can "cure".

We can modify a sociopath's behavior to some degree, but we can't
install a conscience.



Snowfork
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 5

31 May 2010, 3:49 pm

conundrum wrote:

To take a less extreme example, studies have been done in which people would say they liked something they actually didn't (e.g., a product) just because the majority of the group they were in said they liked it too. Many people are desperate to be accepted and will go along with just about anything to gain this acceptance.


This is called social desirability, Asch's conformity and deindividuation.

Social Desirability: People will act the way they think will make them acceptable to their peers.
Asch's conformity: People will conform to the unanimous decision of the group even if the group chooses an obviously incorrect answer.
Deindividuation: People lose their sense of guilt or responsibility for their actions while in a group of people doing the same thing they are.



SoSayWeAll
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 May 2010
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 623

31 May 2010, 5:20 pm

mysterious_misfit wrote:
I was just thinking about something similar this morning. People LOVE to think horrible thoughts about other people. They love to attribute terrible motives to others. They just love it, they derive some kind of sick pleasure from it. This is a lesson I have learned time and again over the 26 years of my life.


I think people do this for multiple reasons. They don't want to look into themselves and see what they wouldn't like about their own personalities, behaviors, and feelings, for starters.

I also think that when people see someone who doesn't conform for whatever reason, it makes them uncomfortable. Taken far enough, that reaction reminds me of the lyrics to that Rush song "The Trees," where all the trees in the forest were made equal with "hatchet, axe, and saw."



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 103,416
Location: Hanging out with my fellow Sweet Peas at Stalag 13

31 May 2010, 5:48 pm

Because most people are backstabbers.


_________________
Schultz

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26&start=645


Snowfork
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 26 May 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 5

09 Jun 2010, 10:24 pm

I do not mean to start an unpleasant conversation, but do any of you consider my point of view?
Being an active social sadist, I don't bully people, I manipulate them through blackmail and leverage.



olympiadis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,849
Location: Fairview Heights Illinois

26 Dec 2014, 8:20 pm

Shadenfreude.
It's something that has been mysterious and fascinating to me since I was a small child.
Recently I found a chemical connection with this effect while reading up about Oxytocin.

Oxytocin seems to have the power to significantly reduce a large number of autistic behavioral traits, as well as cause or increase the effect of Shadenfreude.

I don't think this is a coincidence.


_________________
Anachronism: an object misplaced in time.
"It's true we are immune, when fact is fiction and TV reality"
"It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards"


Jensen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,207
Location: Denmark

26 Dec 2014, 8:40 pm

Member Six said:"Bullying is nature's way of enforcing the social hierarchy in social species.
It occurs in a variety of mammalian aswell as social primate species".

Yep. I was bullied in school, so I wondered about it, and one day, in third grade, I saw a bullying choir in the school yard and decided to participate just to see how it felt. I did get that rush from being one of the howling crowd.
Man, I felt bad afterwards, but I had to know.


_________________
Femaline
Special Interest: Beethoven


jkrane
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 872
Location: 39uqlksdj3ujadlskd

31 Oct 2015, 10:50 am

corroonb wrote:
I have frequently experienced abuse of the verbal or emotional kind throughout my 23 years of existence and I've come to the conclusion that verbal abuse and bullying are an instinctive human behaviour. I can think of no other reason for the lack of a more scientific term being applied to the behaviour than bullying. I think of this behaviour as "social sadism" as the bullies quite clearly derive some sort of pleasure from tormenting others. This may not be the same as physical torture but the pain caused in many cases is just as serious.

Why are such bullies and sadists not charged criminally? The damage done often extends to suicide, low self-esteem and lifelong difficulties.

I can only conclude that society in general finds such behaviour to be acceptable. I myself used to engage in some behaviour of this sort because I have a tendency to imitate and take my social cues from others. I have since stopped this.

I do not want this to be yet another aspie versus nt thread, I would prefer an unemotional discussion about this problem and some ways to address it. I don't think that every human is a natural bully but that many seem to either tolerate it or engage in it. What do you think about this?


I've seen groups of friends in highschool bully and abuse each other, steal from each other, and then still be friends. Good friends. My friends and I view these people as subhuman trash. The guys do semi-homoerotic things so each other too, in a sort of humiliating way. They would slap each other on the ass, and show each other their penises and stuff. Thankfully they only do that their ingroup - their friends. The thing that didn't make sense, is their hatred of gays, and calling everyone f-----s. In fact, I saw one blatant gangster homophobe from my school years later on a bus, and he was dressed to the nines in pink and flashy clothes - and I knew it was him. This kid hated gays. F-----t this, and f-----t that, was all he said in highschool. I think I stared at him in shock and awe for like 5 minutes. His outfit was actually quite stunning. This former homophobe is now gayer than anderson cooper, on fire, in assless leather pants, riding on a glittered unicorn on a rainbow. Needless to say, I lol'd.

This social domination is very common in our society, because we live in a reward/punishment- preditor/prey system that creates bullies and victims. Givers and takers. Even in subtle ways.

It's quite disgusting.



Last edited by jkrane on 31 Oct 2015, 11:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

NowhereWoman
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2009
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 499
Location: Los Angeles, CA

31 Oct 2015, 11:10 am

Whenever I was bullied in school (it was frequent, and I was to the point of tears almost daily, and suicidal several times), I always had the vague feeling that they were doing it to "make" me fit in.

I felt as if they were "sniffing out" oddness and trying to stamp it out. Almost, in sort of a creepy way, as if it were their "duty" or something. They were herding everybody in, policing the "outlanders" and "punishing" us (the very few of us). It was like, if they punished often enough or hard enough, the weirdo would be "motivated" to change. Sadly, the adults seemed to feel this way too and would even say things to that effect. "You need to work it out amongst yourselves." "You need to learn to get along. These are your peers, you'll have to deal with them all your life." "I'm sorry X happened but now maybe next time you'll act differently/act normal."

What some of the former (or currently) bullied may not realize, but I have discovered over time, is that even the non-technically bullied often felt very much pushed into "acting like everybody else" particularly in the school years. You'll hear the former super-popular kids comment on how they didn't necessarily want to do/act like X but they knew they "had to" because their friends "wanted them to," etc. They risked falling from grace if they didn't follow the expected trajectory, too, just like we the bullied did. They *seemed* to live a charmed life but felt every bit as restricted and never felt they could be themselves.

And while we may think that's the wimpy way out and that those kids "should have" taken a stand, anyone who has been bullied knows how horrific it is, how unstoppable it can seem and for a not yet matured person - a child - they can't exactly deal with making some sort of big social statement against their peers. Even adults have a hard time doing that. I am sure the popular kids saw the bullied kids, knew deep down that it could be them at any given moment if they screwed up so that now their lives would be hell, and just didn't do anything even if deep down they wanted to. Not making excuses...just unraveling the course of events as I see them in retrospect.

I do think to an extent it can be instinctive. But I also think there are many things we find instinctive that we hold back on/modify/don't act on due to the fact that we don't just use our mammalian brains, we use other forms of thought. So I don't know that biology is an excuse. For example, if I see a man I'm attracted to in public I probably won't go up to him and start feeling his parts. If I suddenly need to fart in church (not that I go to church, just using an example), I'll excuse myself first. If I'm really hungry while at a parent-teacher conference I won't whip out a Snickers bar, I'll wait until a good time. If my child is driving me absolutely crazy I won't stop him by the most immediate and obvious means - shoving him away - but rather will try to talk it out with him. And so on.

But as for illegalizing "social sadism," I think that would be impossible because where do you draw the line, in any given case?

I think teaching by example is the best thing. I do think I've seen far less bullying today, with more awareness, than I have in years gone by. And when schools, or even work, do experience bullying, even if they don't technically have a policy per se, they tend to take it much more seriously. I'm hopeful.