Verbal Communications Differences and Difficulties Sticky

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Karamazov
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04 May 2020, 10:34 am

^ The inability to correlate you mention sounds like the “theory of mind” issue.
Maybe he struggles more with that when you’re not physically there in front of him?
(I don’t know, pure speculation)



Teach51
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04 May 2020, 11:04 am

It's possible, I know he's not a bast... but he uses words like "doofus" or "stupid" as if they are not insults at all.


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Karamazov
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04 May 2020, 11:19 am

^ Yeah, I’ve done that sort of thing a lot: can’t remember how or why it stopped though.

Hmmm...

Does he consume any media where such terms are used in a casual way?

(I know my parents got rid of the TV when they realised Timmy Mallet was the reason why I was spending every school break hitting other kids over the head.* I also sent girls I’d never talked to love letters in my teens, because that’s what men in Victorian novels did.
This could be of no relevance however.)

* yes, I did shout “whackaday” whilst doing so :oops:



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04 May 2020, 12:24 pm

Karamazov wrote:
^ Yeah, I’ve done that sort of thing a lot: can’t remember how or why it stopped though.

Hmmm...

Does he consume any media where such terms are used in a casual way?

(I know my parents got rid of the TV when they realised Timmy Mallet was the reason why I was spending every school break hitting other kids over the head.* I also sent girls I’d never talked to love letters in my teens, because that’s what men in Victorian novels did.
This could be of no relevance however.)

* yes, I did shout “whackaday” whilst doing so :oops:



Porn. He's a gamer also and they really use hard core language.
That's interesting K because he uses many idioms and phrases he has learnt by heart probably not knowing the appropriate context. We speak in English though his mother tongue is Hebrew. I would prefer a Victorian love letter than being called a "Debbie Downer" or a doofus. I didn't even know what they meant.


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Karamazov
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04 May 2020, 12:37 pm

Teach51 wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
^ Yeah, I’ve done that sort of thing a lot: can’t remember how or why it stopped though.

Hmmm...

Does he consume any media where such terms are used in a casual way?

(I know my parents got rid of the TV when they realised Timmy Mallet was the reason why I was spending every school break hitting other kids over the head.* I also sent girls I’d never talked to love letters in my teens, because that’s what men in Victorian novels did.
This could be of no relevance however.)

* yes, I did shout “whackaday” whilst doing so :oops:



Porn. He's a gamer also and they really use hard core language.


Ah, yes. I’ve known a few gamers and one software engineer: very harsh language towards their machines/games. Also a lot of female gendered pejoratives targeted at said inanimate objects.
What porn I’ve seen had a distinctly nasty use of language toward the female performers* scripted into it.

Although in both cases much more extreme than what you’ve mentioned.

Edit: I see you’ve added more.
Yes, I’m pretty sure I’ve done that with words and phrases: tried them out, or adopted them wholesale without really knowing about their actual meaning, meaning within context, shift of context also shifting meaning: all that hyper-complex jazz.
I probably still do it, but I started conceptualising every word and phrase as a multi-faceted 3D form with many true “literal” meanings corresponding to each facet: which reduced the frequency, but not the intensity, of the malapropisms.
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04 May 2020, 12:48 pm

am believing these differences / variants need to be addressed NV vs speech.
often finding myself much more misunderstood when i speak about things. But when writing appparently not always the best with the written would , but i know am generally much more clear on the written word.. Exception being , when fatique level is high. .


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Karamazov
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04 May 2020, 1:12 pm

^ The clarity of writing going down as fatigue increases sounds normal, assuming you mean it rises back up when you’re feeling rested & such.
Don’t know about speech clarity reducing in general though: might be one for your doctor :shrug:



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04 May 2020, 1:31 pm

Is it possible that an aspie would not know that the same language he uses with gamers (they curse each other and are combative all the time I believe) is inappropriate in an intimate relationship? It's like two different personalities, what he is writing and the sensitivity and politeness expressed when we are together. I am guessing he is gaming most of the night cos he sleeps very little.


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Karamazov
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04 May 2020, 2:19 pm

Teach51 wrote:
Is it possible that an aspie would not know that the same language he uses with gamers (they curse each other and are combative all the time I believe) is inappropriate in an intimate relationship? It's like two different personalities, what he is writing and the sensitivity and politeness expressed when we are together. I am guessing he is gaming most of the night cos he sleeps very little.


Yes, very possible.
That’s what I meant by “Edit” portion of my post above... I have probably expressed myself with maximum anti-clarity there. :P
The split between written and in person seems a bit strange to me, but then I split express between communication forms too: in person I’m short, abrupt, tend to use virtually cryptic one to three syllable responses and am often mute.
Unless on a roll about an interest, then I can ad-lib monologue for up to several hours.*

So, hmmm...

I’ll assume he’s not comfortable with *shudder* talking over a phone?
(I want to ask you tried voice messages instead of text ones)
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*One of the things Mrs K brought to my attention years ago after the third time she woke up and realised I was still talking having not noticed she’d dozed off. :lol:



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04 May 2020, 3:23 pm

Karamazov wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
Is it possible that an aspie would not know that the same language he uses with gamers (they curse each other and are combative all the time I believe) is inappropriate in an intimate relationship? It's like two different personalities, what he is writing and the sensitivity and politeness expressed when we are together. I am guessing he is gaming most of the night cos he sleeps very little.


Yes, very possible.
That’s what I meant by “Edit” portion of my post above... I have probably expressed myself with maximum anti-clarity there. :P
The split between written and in person seems a bit strange to me, but then I split express between communication forms too: in person I’m short, abrupt, tend to use virtually cryptic one to three syllable responses and am often mute.
Unless on a roll about an interest, then I can ad-lib monologue for up to several hours.*

So, hmmm...

I’ll assume he’s not comfortable with *shudder* talking over a phone?
(I want to ask you tried voice messages instead of text ones)
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*One of the things Mrs K brought to my attention years ago after the third time she woke up and realised I was still talking having not noticed she’d dozed off. :lol:


No phone conversations or voice messages. I laughed out loud at you not noticing your wife falling asleep K. My guy also has lengthy monologues, and while he is talking he apologetically says that he has to say everything that comes into his head, and he literally tells me everything completely unfiltered. He shares with me his deepest feelings and personal information which makes me believe that there is no malice or manipulation involved .This is all an enigma to me. I just want to believe that he is not deliberately insulting me because I have such a toxic history.


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Karamazov
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04 May 2020, 3:41 pm

Teach51 wrote:
Karamazov wrote:
Teach51 wrote:
Is it possible that an aspie would not know that the same language he uses with gamers (they curse each other and are combative all the time I believe) is inappropriate in an intimate relationship? It's like two different personalities, what he is writing and the sensitivity and politeness expressed when we are together. I am guessing he is gaming most of the night cos he sleeps very little.


Yes, very possible.
That’s what I meant by “Edit” portion of my post above... I have probably expressed myself with maximum anti-clarity there. :P
The split between written and in person seems a bit strange to me, but then I split express between communication forms too: in person I’m short, abrupt, tend to use virtually cryptic one to three syllable responses and am often mute.
Unless on a roll about an interest, then I can ad-lib monologue for up to several hours.*

So, hmmm...

I’ll assume he’s not comfortable with *shudder* talking over a phone?
(I want to ask you tried voice messages instead of text ones)
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*One of the things Mrs K brought to my attention years ago after the third time she woke up and realised I was still talking having not noticed she’d dozed off. :lol:


No phone conversations or voice messages. I laughed out loud at you not noticing your wife falling asleep K. My guy also has lengthy monologues, and while he is talking he apologetically says that he has to say everything that comes into his head, and he literally tells me everything completely unfiltered. He shares with me his deepest feelings and personal information which makes me believe that there is no malice or manipulation involved .This is all an enigma to me. I just want to believe that he is not deliberately insulting me because I have such a toxic history.


Yes.
Well, I can’t tell you the answer to that because I don’t know.
I can tell you that him using such words and phrases out of ingrained habit without being fully cognisant of their meaning or emotional effect on you is both credible and consistent with what else you’ve said: but that is all.

Have you tried talking to him about it?



Teach51
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04 May 2020, 4:13 pm

Yes of course. He just closes up and changes the subject. He asked me once if I could just accept him as he is. I mainly do but when he hurts my feelings I tell him. I don't want him to mask, but he tries very hard to be macho with me because he knows I like it ( I know, I'm a hopeless case). The first time we met after a short time he just blurted out that he's a high functioning autist, quite cheerfully, then added that he is a sociopath (which he is not) quite like a child coming home from school telling his mum what he'd learned that day. I was hooked from that moment on. He has many impressive achievements in sport and in the IDF. I think I need to research theory of mind, when I read the guys posts in L&D it is easier for me to understand his struggles.


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Karamazov
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04 May 2020, 4:38 pm

Teach51 wrote:
Yes of course. He just closes up and changes the subject. He asked me once if I could just accept him as he is. I mainly do but when he hurts my feelings I tell him. I don't want him to mask, but he tries very hard to be macho with me because he knows I like it ( I know, I'm a hopeless case). The first time we met after a short time he just blurted out that he's a high functioning autist, quite cheerfully, then added that he is a sociopath (which he is not) quite like a child coming home from school telling his mum what he'd learned that day. I was hooked from that moment on. He has many impressive achievements in sport and in the IDF. I think I need to research theory of mind, when I read the guys posts in L&D it is easier for me to understand his struggles.


Yes, I tend to go silent in conversations to do with my behaviour being less than I’d want it to be.*
I think the research idea sounds really good, understanding being a good thing yes, but also might possibly inspire an approach to the problem that works.
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* After something you said on your meltdown thread the other day it occurred to me that most of mine happen during such discussions, hadn’t noticed that before :roll: anyway, thanks for stimulating the extra chunk of self-knowledge.



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07 Aug 2020, 2:00 am

Can't express the frustration I feel at not being able to express myself adequately.
Quite literally.


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07 Aug 2020, 9:52 am

As long as the stress levels are acceptable....communication levels seem to be good for me but often ,I do not get my thoughts out , at the time . Rather later thinking this is what I needed to say .


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22 Aug 2020, 7:59 am

In our last texting conversation my lover said to me "I have to be so careful what I say to you, I'm treading on eggshells here." I just raised my eyes to heaven and said in my heart: "Hallelujah, keep those eggshells coming." I


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