Frenemies

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I totally agree, with everyone if one thing is niot as strong another sense will always kick in....

The friends thing to be honest really wish at times could have without all the complexities they often bring... NT friends end up suffocating me, at least the few friends I still have seem to now understand I can not be there 24/7. I feel the problem often is when I have a down time and start over thinking, analyzing and worrying... and then when my happy manic self comes back, need people, but they all seem to off run away...

So friends without pressure or strings

Some one just said this to me...
"why are you trying so hard to fit in when you were born to stand out?"
I guess I have spent half of my life trying to do just that, but I intend to spent the rest enjoying...

Well I dumped my frenemeny. I know it's better to just drift away from people, but she's a leech and I've tried the 'drifting away' thing before without success. She became threatening and 'witchy' (I've tried to dump her before) as is her custom. So she's definitely an enemy now! oh well....

Good to hear postperson, us aspies always seem to think of others before ourselves..
Maybe its about time we put ourselves first, the rest of the world will just have to get use to it / us

It drives me crazy. I've lost trust in many people because of it. This used to happen to me a lot in highschool. Little did I know that in the real world, it's just as bad.

I usually try and be careful with what I say cause anything can happen. That's why I don't ever tell fair-weathered friends about myself much. If I do, it's because I've known that person well and get a good feeling about them even though there will be a tendency to have disputes just as any relationship.

It's like they say keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer...

well, further developments.

I think this is going to be like getting rid of the Jehovahs or something (no offence to any reading, but you know). She rang me this morning, I declined her invitation, she said something about 'My, quite the hermit these days aren't you". I told her not to come here today or any other day and hung up the phone (she's relentless, ignores anything you say).

Several hours later she turns up here. I asked "what are you doing here?" and she said I brought you your junk mail (she delivers junk mail for a job). I said that I don't what her or the junk mail on the premises again. She was really smiley and friendly and asked in a fake concern kind of way if I was alright? like there must be something wrong with not wanting to know a habitual liar and exploiter like herself.

This is going to be tough. She's got some kind of mental illness, possibly bipolar or DID according to her (unmedicated), but basically she's a sociopath, people only exist for her convenience and no-one tells her what to do and she's incapable of wrong (god like). If you draw a line for her and tell her not to cross it, she crosses it, you know.

Any ideas?

Two things:

Postperson - If she really is that disruptive, that you can't even tell her to her face to go away, you might have to threaten (and then actually follow through on) getting a restraining order. If you forbid someone from coming on your property and they continue to do so, that's trespassing and is illegal.

And as for the aspies reading people better-

That is something I'm good at, too, although I don't have problems with the facial expression issues etc., but I think they can absolutely be separated. I think the crux of the issue is this: as children, we're taught that it's not nice to judge people before you know them, and so we squash our intuition out and keep an "open mind". Well I was never taught to do that (my mom had borderline personality disorder, so she basically distrusted everyone). On top of that, I'm very interested in psychology and linguistics and learning how speech patterns and body language are used.

You know, no matter how hard fake people/liars try to be authentic, there is always something in them that reveals itself, unless they themselves believe the lie. That's just how human nature is. And I think that aspies, who may not pick up on the social norm that you "shouldn't judge", definitely retain that childlike intuition that can tell when a certain speech pattern or movement betrays fakeness.

I think the whole issue with aspies having trouble with facial cues is not so much that they can't see them, but that they have difficulty with empathy. So for example:

"Hi John, how are you?" says Amanda, not smiling or looking at him. John, not realizing that she's not really interested, might go into a long speech about how he's doing. This is an example of an aspie missing a facial cue (because he often doesn't look at people when he talks to them, even if he is interested in what they have to say).

"Hiiiiiii John, how ARE you?" says Amanda, who barely knows John, as she shakes his hand vigorously and smiles wildly. John thinks, "Well, even my closest friends don't greet me this way when they meet me, and I barely know her. In fact, the only time I've seen people greet each other this way is when they end up asking for something. So Amanda is going to ask me for something." Many NT people might initially think this, but would push the idea out of their head because it's not 'polite'. So this in an example of the aspie intuition.

What do you guys think? I definitely see the distinction but I'm not sure if I explained it well.

um yeah she definitely exploits basic politeness, although she has none herself. She also exploits guilt, although she has no ability to feel any herself. I have mentioned a restraining order to her, mainly as a deterrent. Hopefully she won't be tedious enough for that, but I'll have to wait and see.

I am a bit of a magnet for sociopaths, so I've had to get out the blowtorch on them before. I think she's probably going to go all creepy and stalky for a while. Eventually they do buzz off but not without some trouble.

It's possible to understand something and be unable to do it. One can coach from a wheel chair. We are capable of understanding it better than they are. We are free to ask rational questions and wonder about the system. They don't think about it, they just go on instinct.

Tahitii, I don't necessarily think it is about being critical, maybe it is more about an NT mind being hard-wired (due to social conditioning? Part biology?) on social hierarchy, it is subconscious. As for the system, well I think many folk know it is wrong, but they choose to ignore. They don't ask or don't want to ask, there is too much to lose. The need to impress, to get that promotion, that position or that wage rise. But you do get instinct moving in, and yes it is a disposition due to many years of socialisation. Examples include patriotism, racism and xenophobia, which blinkers people. In reality it is nothing but self pride taking a collective form and a wider space. Love your own, where is the difficulty in that? It's just loving yourself, what you recognise in yourself you recognise in others and you take delight in that. Love your enemy (i.e. the 'other' or what your collective views as the 'enemy'), now that is something else all together.

While an Aspie, as far as I have read, can be puritanical after their interests, nothing should cease in its way, and there is no instrumental value in its pursuit, it is an end in itself. Status and prestige do not matter at all.

Many NT people might initially think this, but would push the idea out of their head because it's not 'polite'. So this in an example of the aspie intuition.

Estrella, I can only talk for myself here, but it is not that (though I am not too sure if I am an aspie at all, even if I share many symptoms). It's very difficult to explain, you kinda just pick things up. I don't look at people in social interactions (unless I consciously tell myself). Often I look at the floor when I walk, hence being a bit oblivious with surroundings. Maybe if I describe it as noticing the slight movements, the little shift in body posture, the turn of the head, how someone behaves in different scenarios. I suppose it is just having an eye for the slightest detail. Despite all that, it is right to push the idea out of your head, unless it ceases to become a gut feeling or intuition, then learn and take heed I suppose.

Most of Flakey's friends are Frienemies...

I have friends I argue with politely, but they're not "frenemies."

A frenemy is fickle. They're really nice to you and then they talk about you behind your back. They do you a favor and think that that's justification for "borrowing" your favorite items of clothing. They're great to be around...when it's convenient for them.

Where the hell, I ask, does the "fr" come in?

Would you like to do yourself and the world a favor?
Tell her boss. (Jehovas, whatever connection she has.) Is it possible to figure out who is in charge of the local group? If s/he is a respected leader, s/he probably has some social skills and will recognize this behavior as bad for their group.

The group probably thinks this individual is an asset, going out there and doing good work for them. If they knew what she was doing, they would want to stop her. Whether they would be able to control her is another question, but at the moment they probably don't even know that they should try.

No she's not actually a Jehovah's witness, but I meant she's going to be as hard to get rid of as that. I know other people who regard her as a problem too, but they're more reticent about getting rid of her, just talk of moving away eventually, to another region, , like an eye roll, people do regard her as a pain in the arse, although she cultivates a 'likeable rogue' kind of image, she's a lot creepier than that.

I'll keep you posted on any further developments.