How to Argue with an NT

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The science of understanding NT thought is pretty tough. They don't understand it, so how are we as Aspies supposed to?

Example of differences:
I buy a car because it drives nicely, is cheap to maintain, and has the features I want. My wife buys a car because it is a nice colour and looks in style. For her desirability somewhat increases with price. For me desirability increases with features I want, etc.

I have found that by statistical analysis of responses we can predict the actions of NTs and use that information to "win" arguments with them. Or at least terminate arguments with a minimum of fuss and go on with our lives.

I'll start with what not to do:
Do not argue logically. It is likely the NT you are arguing with cannot follow your logic. If they can follow your logic they will be incapable of formulating a response and get mad. To quote an NT "I know you are wrong, but your argument is perfect." Yes someone really said that to me.

Don’t fight to resolve the issue. This is all about positioning and "emotionally forcing the other person to listen to/respect you." So the only goal is to win the argument. You will not be able to resolve the issue until you have "won" so don't bother trying. The goal here is establishing your alpha position emotionally. That is how NTs fight so you have to fight on their level. <Dogs instinctually also fight for alpha position but I digress.>

Now let's get into what to do. All of this is observed from NTs behaviour:
1) Mock them. Most NTs will respond to mocking and back down. Fight is over.

2) Talk quietly and Accuse them of losing control. "You are yelling and your hands are trembling again. You are losing control. You are just angry and not thinking straight."

3) Never admit you are wrong. I have real problems with this one personally. But it is the correct thing to do in an emotional or NT argument. The argument is about control and dominance. Not about the facts. Admitting you are wrong is submitting to the truth.

4) Change the topic to one where you are clearly right. “Remember when you didn’t call on Friday night and you were out late? How inconsiderate was that?” It is very important that you drive the topic to situations where they were in the wrong. Anything they say to change the topic should be ignored.

5) Ignore anything they say. It is not relevant to the argument. Your goal is to win, which means the only points that matter are ones that put them in the wrong and you in the right. Anything they say will not support your case so ignore them.

Any Aspie who reads this will be aghast and so you should be. Such behaviour in an argument is crazy. However many NTs are so emotionally driven that you will NEVER understand them. Not a problem. Just learn the social rules for dealing with them. They don’t have to make sense to you. They just have to work. These rules for arguing with NTs work. Amazingly I have found they have no negative side effects. You are expected to act this way.

Please remember though that there are thinker NTs. These people you can argue with logically to resolve the issue. The key is figuring out which is which. Personally I spend a lot more time around thinkers given the choice. I spent a lot of time figuring out this stuff to deal with emotional people. On the up side it saved my marriage so it can’t be all bad.

Ttyl

PS If you are savant remember one thing. Just because no one can effectively argue with you it doesn’t mean you are right. It just means no one can effectively argue with you.

I'm willing to bet there are "feeler" auties as well as "thinker" NTs.

Glad everything worked out with your strategy.

grow up!! !! !

Precisely! I have had similar thoughts but never articulated. In actuality I HATE to argue and would rather just avoid the entire mess, with given emotive NT, like the plague. But good points!

I have done this, which sort-of works since it seems to appeal to NT insensibility: "I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you."

I have told given problematic NT to "Comply." <confession, I once did this a romantic interlude, but nevermind>

And, "Quite behaving like a negative sign under a radicand."

"Have you considered having your Sylvian Fissure fused?" < I really meant that, btw. I have no Sylvian Fissure (neuroanatomical brain feature).

Appeals to their logic is futile! NTs have had their logic chip smashed in uteuro, apparently.

They seem to not be able to separte logic/thought from emotion so I am always at an impasse when I must deal with them. Curious, yes?

The worst thing to say to any NT - I did this ONCE and I am sorry....sort-of: "I hate you. I hate you so much that if I had AIDS I'd have sex with you right now." I promise, this doesn't go over well.

who?

I guess that is good advice. But maturity is way overrated.

the OP or anyone who takes notice of what he is saying. I've said before, I get pissed of when people talk about NT's like they are some different race. I hate the actual saying itself.

I watched some of your video, its cool. And your attractive

Yeah, it's no fun to be lumped into a category and dumped out like yesterday's trash. You'd think if some people on this site were such "objective thinkers" they would be able to maintain more control over their own hypocrisies.

You know, you totally got on my nerves in the religion & philosophy forum, but on this topic I couldn't agree with you more. AS is defined as "high-functioning" autism, which means those who possess it have just minor differences compared to neurotypicals. I also agree with your disapproval of the term "neurotypical." It's misleading, since it's used to indicate that a person does not posess an autism spectrum disorder but it implies the person is "typical" neurologically, which is often times untrue.

You have a good point; making the distinction between NT & Autist can be devisive and this isn't right. I am a scientist and therefore pragmatic. Further, I work in the neurosciences (I'm 1stly a chemist) so sometimes, in research/science, we will say, 'neurotypical,' or 'autistic.' But this is merely a defining point - not a value judgment. Much like saying, "Jane has brown eyes whilst Michael has green eyes."

Being a HFA is sometimes hard. I do have a sense of humor and I wouldn't ever want to hurt another by labeling. Even those whom I work with closely and very much like sometimes will 'joke' (lightly - in an innocuous way), about my autism. And this is fine. I think my sense of humor helps me cope! I do not have a 'fighting manner' at all and just don't. Sometimes this means I get my feeling hurt though and others who do not really know me can hurt my feelings badly.

But diagnostics should never be a target for teasing or putting-down anyone. I truly think one's intent is what matters, not if they make a mistake. Ill-intent is just wrong. Personally, I do try very hard. I would be really hurt if I felt I had disappointed someone, even accidentally.

All NTs are not "a different race." In fact I know quite a few thinker NTs who I can empathize with. The ones I have problems with are the ones that live by emoting rather than thinking. The interesting thing is most people who live their lives emoting rather than thinking think they are thinking. They also make the emotional decision that they are capable of thinking just as well as anyone else. They generally think this regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

Once I stopped trying to understand or empathize with emoter NTs and started just acting like them / observing their reactions to my actions without analysis of motivation: Things got really easy. I do this the reaction is that. Not I would react this way, or this way shows no respect, or any analysis at all. Just I do this: What is the reaction?

Actually I find that Aspies usually have a lot of trouble until they realize that there is an empathy issue with emoters. Once they understand they don't understand emoter responses intelligence takes over and faking it is easy.

ttyl

PS On the good side of life once you pass the age of 21 thinkers rule. Aspie or not. It is only during high school and university where being an emoter seems to be an advantage. In the real world results speak for themselves.

Thank you, Smelena & I had fun - the music is appropriate too. I hope you like my robot, V8!

I did grow up. It took me close to 40 years to figure that out. If I hadn't figured out how to deal with NTs I would probably be visiting my kids on weekends by now. As it is my wife respects me and I run a successful software company with her. She is the only emoter I am really forced to deal with who I don't clearly "Outrank" (employees etc).

ttyl

I was only diagnosed last year, so when i've made aspie like mistakes in the past, especially at school, i've been labelled stupid or the class clown. So really i've just had to get on with it, not bought up in an aspie bubble. I can see things from both sides. I'm just saying using that term a lot and being angry at NT's won't get you anywhere!

Your welcome LaPet! Robot

well thats good to hear