How to Argue with an NT

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[quote "Phagocyte"]
zen_mistress wrote:
I think this is a lot of the problem here. NTs perceive us as arrogant because we put our views out there when they are afraid to.. they think that such a person would believe they were always right, when actually aspies tend to also be seeking new information and viewpoints and dont believe we are always right at all.


Actually, most NTs don't even know about Aspergers, or know very little about it, let alone have preconceived notions or judgements about people with Aspergers.[/quote]

That is exactly what it is. Hardly anyone I talk to - Adult or otherwise - has any bit of a clue about Asperger's syndrome.
The thing I disagree with the most in this topic, however, is that Aspies are a sub-species, separate from NT people, or anything similar to such. It's no different than being right-or-left brained, or handed, or ambidextrous. We are mainly driven by logic, whereas some NT's are emotionally driven. We are far to the right; Completely logical, without emotion interfering with our calculations and decisions. This puts us at odds with emotional people; those to the left, who make a decision based on emotions and how this would make them feel or appear, which completely befuddles us, because logic is what determines a good decision, not how we feel about it. This is ultimately the difference; we want what is strategically best. Emotional people want what they like, no matter how inefficient, worthless, or meaningless. For instance, people like rabbits. I don't like rabbits because they are a pest to crops and are overpopulated. Other people like rabbits because they are cute. I find cute to be worthless in terms of logic, so I don't like rabbits, because they are vermin that eat my lettuce. Because I cannot escape the idea that I can only like it if it useful, I cannot grasp the concept of liking anything that is cute (outside of girls, but that's hormones)

I can't stand discussions with people that arn't give and take.

I need to deal with level minded people who can have rational discussions without resorting to stubborness just for the sake of it.

Everything with me is about logic.

I found someone, my wife, who knows when to back off when I'm losing it. She knows how to bring me back from whatever dark recess I retreat to when I'm stressed.

I tend to surround myself with very particular type of people. But I have that choice in Life, not everyone can structure their world around them. Most people have to be able to cope with whatever Life throws at them. I can't do that I tend to shape the world around me the best I can so that I can work within it not the other way around. I certainly can't handle extremes of change in my Life.

It's all about give and take. Sometimes you'll freak out because people arn't behaving within the framework of logic you work within, if your mind is truely bent that way. That's when you learn who your friends and true lovers really are.

I don't think I could stand toe to toe with a neurotypicial completely bent on flaming me into the ground though. I couldn't stand toe to toe with a neurotypicial argueing a point of view they don't even believe in. I have to absolutely believe in what I am argueing about I have to believe that I am argueing for the side of right and good in the Universe. I just can't fake it. If I'm even slightly stressed out in the most tiniest fraction of a degree any neurotypical can flame me into into dust in an arguement. I tend to not hang out with those kinda people though, in fact I make it a rule to never allow people like that into my personal space.

Oh yeh I completely forgot my own semantics in relation to cognitive/neurological disorders. I often think of my Aspergers as a Cognitive Anomoly, rather than a disorder. I havn't talked to anyone but my wife for quite some time and my thinking gets a bit fuzzy. I like that particular twist of semantics though "Cognitive Anomoly".

My spelling is off I know, I just can't focus enough to run everything I write through a word processor, not even a word processor as accessable as one in the cloud.

http://www.spellcheck.net/

Hey, I agree, neurodiversity is a beautiful thing, it's what makes Life and Existence what it is. Unfortunately for people like me at the very extremes of neurodiversity, mainstream culture just can't fit me in and I slip through it's cracks. It is easy for someone at the very extremes of neurodiversity such as myself to feel a certain amount of malice at being left out. All I want is a proper education and to be valued as an intellectual in my own right in mainstream culture. But I have learned to accept that humanity is not quite ready to fit people into mainstream educational instiutions, that are, let's face it of such high maintenence, such as myself. I mean I suffer so agonisingly and chronically from my cognitive/neurological condition that I literally need a curriculam designed around me and not the other way around. I have learned to accept solitude and I have learned to accept to a degree, that I will find it infinitely more difficult than the neurotypical person to fit in and function in mainstream educational institutions.

And that just breaks my heart because I want to study, I want to teach. I WANT, to connect with people. Sometimes though, in Life, you just don't get what you want.

I tried to tell a doctor that I might be gifted, and they immediately diagnosed me with narcissistic personality disorder and prescribed drugs for me that they couldn't possibly predict the consequences of me taking.

I think they didn't quite understand that I didn't want to disrupt my thought processes and lapse into a state of existential comatose, I just wanted to be able to function and work at a higher level free from my Aspergers/Twice Exceptionality.

I refused to take them and tried to explain my case, at the very height of my reason and rationablility to explain.

They were not moved, no matter how eloquantly, I argued my own individual case of neurodiversity.

My field of interest is religion, and more specifically theory that relates to how religions are actually written and theory that directly relates to actually transcending oneself from writing about religion to the proper way to actually write religion with the same level of perfectionism, exactitude and standards that any scientist or academic should demand of their own selves.

I use empirical data gathered from my own personal research of religions, to back up my theories, that have been written in the last one hundred years, from which I can actually gather hard data. F.B.I reports, biographies, historical accounts.

My problem is that I am an Aspergers Syndrome/Cognitive/Neurological syndrome afflicted intellectual from the very, extent of the most of left fields.

Nothing makes one feel as lonely as working out on the very fringes of what humans understand about Existence.

I am admittedly, an EXTREME case though.

This however, doesn't change the fact that I write religion, as a trade, no different from a plumber, who fixes toilets, has, as their trade.

I can't change who I am, and I would never want to. Seriously if your at such a far out level of existential crisis as I am what do you do? I mean aside from stop worrying about the fact one is not neurotypical and just get on with the freaken job?

It's probably cool if one isn't neurotypical and who's fixation is on something mainstream such as, building bridges, or designing software, but some of us arn't so lucky, people such as myself. Some of us, most probably those at the very the extreme ends of neurodiversity are not so lucky.

I think the key premise here is that "neurodiversity" is actually normal. But it doesn't make it any easier knowing that neurodiversity if normal if one isn't neurotypical. One still finds oneself in the same position, that being "totally screwed", unless one's neurocomplexity falls into the realms of being mainstream.

I just thought I would share my experience.

Transcention Universia.

Proof of Concept - http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt74903.html

I'm sorry but I am NT and I disagree with the below. I am also an INFP so I am a 'feeling' NT although I've had to develop an unnatural (for me) Thinking side due to living with a very shut down person for a while (marriage).

If you reverse what to do and not do above the lists you made, I'd more likely agree with you. Let me say why.

INFP ^ that is a pretty hardcore empathetic sign, I used to work wwith an INFP and she was very intuitive with people. I am an ENFP, but being an aspie I missed out on the social skills most ENFPs have, instead just getting the impulsiveness. Yay.

I don't know. I am on the spectrum and I am very emotional, like fashionable clothing, want to be in shape. I don't like being labeled and stereotyped and expected to live up to those. I argue with NTs ALL THE TIME on a constant basis, lol. I never talk to them without having an argument unless it's some sales clerk who asks,
"How are you?"
and then I mutter a hollow
"fine, you?"
and that's the end of it.

It's because I know that person isn't interested. I know they aren't interested and don't know why they think I would need an insincere inquiry into my state of being. If they really wanted
to talk to me I wouldn't mind but if they are just going through the motions and I can tell they don't really want to talk to me I really wish they would just stay silent, and I would do the same.

yeah, thats just small talk, its annoying. But some of them might actually want to talk to you, its just an easy way to start.