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Postperson
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23 Aug 2008, 4:31 am

This is a new angle (to me) on the supposed passive reaction to aggressors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_the_other_cheek

Figurative interpretation
A figurative interpretation relies on historical and other factors.[1] At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance.[2] If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed.[3] The other alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek the persecuted was in effect demanding equality.



Sand
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23 Aug 2008, 4:46 am

Interesting. If someone rapes your wife do you offer him your daughter?



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Aug 2008, 9:16 am

Well, no, you only offer your virgin daughters if he seems to want to rape a guest of yours.

Gen 19:8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof."



corroonb
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23 Aug 2008, 9:31 am

The old testament is openly gynophobic and misogynist.

Turn the other cheek is a New Testament ideology.



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Aug 2008, 9:36 am

corroonb wrote:
The old testament is openly gynophobic and misogynist.

Turn the other cheek is a New Testament ideology.

I know about the theological distinctions, however, they are put in the same book, to be reflective of the same supposed god, and the new testament affirms the old testament as well.



corroonb
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23 Aug 2008, 9:38 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
corroonb wrote:
The old testament is openly gynophobic and misogynist.

Turn the other cheek is a New Testament ideology.

I know about the theological distinctions, however, they are put in the same book, to be reflective of the same supposed god, and the new testament affirms the old testament as well.


The Bible is not internally consistent. That should be obvious to even a child. The New Testament is worth reading because Jesus is admirable. The Old Testament is mostly insane, violent and arbitrary.



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Aug 2008, 9:41 am

corroonb wrote:
The Bible is not internally consistent. That should be obvious to even a child. The New Testament is worth reading because Jesus is admirable. The Old Testament is mostly insane, violent and arbitrary.

I am not going to argue that it is internally consistent, however, to be honest, one can argue that the New Testament is not roses either, as there are a number of verses that could be used to construct an argument against Jesus's sanity, and to be honest, some verses in the New Testament can be used to support the idea of an arbitrary god, as the new testament also carries a number of verses about the doctrine of predestination. Finally, Revelation is just trippy.



Sand
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23 Aug 2008, 9:42 am

I take it then the Jews might be considered violent, insane and arbitrary if they follow their religion. Perhaps that is the root of Israel's behavior towards the Palestinians.



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Aug 2008, 9:43 am

Sand wrote:
I take it then the Jews might be considered violent, insane and arbitrary if they follow their religion. Perhaps that is the root of Israel's behavior towards the Palestinians.

I think most Jews have relaxed their stance, and I think that the ones that take it literally are in the minority.



corroonb
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23 Aug 2008, 9:44 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
corroonb wrote:
The Bible is not internally consistent. That should be obvious to even a child. The New Testament is worth reading because Jesus is admirable. The Old Testament is mostly insane, violent and arbitrary.

I am not going to argue that it is internally consistent, however, to be honest, one can argue that the New Testament is not roses either, as there are a number of verses that could be used to construct an argument against Jesus's sanity, and to be honest, some verses in the New Testament can be used to support the idea of an arbitrary god, as the new testament also carries a number of verses about the doctrine of predestination. Finally, Revelation is just trippy.


I haven't read most of the New Testament as schools in Ireland don't tend to teach Revelations, thankfully. Revelations is insane, the writer of it must have been very odd. Do we know who wrote it?



ToadOfSteel
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23 Aug 2008, 10:35 am

"Turn the other cheek" is really just Jesus' implementation of "Violence begets violence". Being God in human form (as the gospels attest), this allowed Jesus to know the human condition quite well, while God in the Old Testament had no clue about what it was like...



corroonb
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23 Aug 2008, 10:39 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:
"Turn the other cheek" is really just Jesus' implementation of "Violence begets violence". Being God in human form (as the gospels attest), this allowed Jesus to know the human condition quite well, while God in the Old Testament had no clue about what it was like...


How is that possible if god is omniscient?



Sand
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23 Aug 2008, 10:39 am

Interesting that God could be assumed ignorant.



claire-333
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23 Aug 2008, 10:53 am

I've always liked an eye for an eye, though I am not the type to seek revenge. However, I can honestly say I smile a little on the inside when I see hurtful people get what they deserve. Cosmic justice is even better...like the bully who trips and fall on their face.



ToadOfSteel
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23 Aug 2008, 10:55 am

corroonb wrote:
ToadOfSteel wrote:
"Turn the other cheek" is really just Jesus' implementation of "Violence begets violence". Being God in human form (as the gospels attest), this allowed Jesus to know the human condition quite well, while God in the Old Testament had no clue about what it was like...


How is that possible if god is omniscient?


Bad phrasing on my part. God knew of the human condition. He is, after all, the creator of humans, whether through the creation story or through bilions of years of natural selection (which, while discovered by Darwin, was really created by God as one of the natural laws of the universe).

Anyway I digress. God knew of the human condition, but really couldn't, as an immortal being, truly understand it until he became mortal through Jesus.



corroonb
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23 Aug 2008, 11:05 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:
corroonb wrote:
ToadOfSteel wrote:
"Turn the other cheek" is really just Jesus' implementation of "Violence begets violence". Being God in human form (as the gospels attest), this allowed Jesus to know the human condition quite well, while God in the Old Testament had no clue about what it was like...


How is that possible if god is omniscient?


Bad phrasing on my part. God knew of the human condition. He is, after all, the creator of humans, whether through the creation story or through bilions of years of natural selection (which, while discovered by Darwin, was really created by God as one of the natural laws of the universe).

Anyway I digress. God knew of the human condition, but really couldn't, as an immortal being, truly understand it until he became mortal through Jesus.


That does not make any sense. So before Jesus god was malicious, insane and violent and afterwards, he wasn't because we killed him.

:?: