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Sand
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31 Aug 2008, 3:51 pm

Because they have laws against it.



prometheuspann
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01 Sep 2008, 1:48 am

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I agree absolutely with the concept of understanding the sources of crime but it seems to me it isn't that simple as crime is intricately integrated with all sorts of very powerful legal and criminal systems and merely understanding them still leaves you helpless.


Interesting ideas proving you did not read the references or think about how they applied.


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"Merely understanding them" enables you to avoid committing them, right?


No, you have to have useful tactics to meet your needs and that also requires the system to be sane.

Which would be one point of the whole problem solving process. Crime is one half personal responsibility and one half social responsibility- and things get worse because all we do is blame the criminal and fail to take responsibility for what society is
responsible for.


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prometheuspann
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01 Sep 2008, 1:49 am

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An action is not criminal if there is no law against it.


Technically, an action is criminal if it causes harm, whether or not theres a law against it.


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slowmutant
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01 Sep 2008, 4:49 am

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Which would be one point of the whole problem solving process. Crime is one half personal responsibility and one half social responsibility- and things get worse because all we do is blame the criminal and fail to take responsibility for what society is
responsible for.


Bunk.

Crime is 100% personal responsibility.



prometheuspann
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01 Sep 2008, 1:28 pm

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Bunk.

Crime is 100% personal responsibility.


You didn't read your pavlov, maslow, or sociology, and you are pretending you know something which is now silly considering that the real answer has been provided.


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slowmutant
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01 Sep 2008, 1:36 pm

I haven't read half as extensively as you, I will admit that.



twoshots
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01 Sep 2008, 1:38 pm

prometheuspann wrote:
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Bunk.

Crime is 100% personal responsibility.


You didn't read your pavlov, maslow, or sociology, and you are pretending you know something which is now silly considering that the real answer has been provided.

"Moral responsibility" is a moral issue, and thus does not answer to evidence.


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iamnotaparakeet
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01 Sep 2008, 1:39 pm

prometheuspann wrote:
Quote:
An action is not criminal if there is no law against it.


Technically, an action is criminal if it causes harm, whether or not theres a law against it.


Punishment causes harm, so punishment must be criminal.



prometheuspann
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01 Sep 2008, 1:39 pm

Please do the reading and then come back to me on how much crime is personal responsibility and how much is social responsibility.

The cures are social. they do exist. Implementing them requires transcending blame.

:sunny:


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iamnotaparakeet
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01 Sep 2008, 1:41 pm

prometheuspann wrote:
Please do the reading and then come back to me on how much crime is personal responsibility and how much is social responsibility.

The cures are social. they do exist. Implementing them requires transcending blame.

:sunny:


Knowledge of innumerable material is unnecessary to perform logical operations.



twoshots
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01 Sep 2008, 1:42 pm

prometheuspann wrote:
Please do the reading and then come back to me on how much crime is personal responsibility and how much is social responsibility.

The cures are social. they do exist. Implementing them requires transcending blame.

:sunny:

I don't subscribe to a deterrent theory of justice, and I'm an anti-utilitarian. I am not impressed.


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prometheuspann
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01 Sep 2008, 1:42 pm

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Punishment causes harm, so punishment must be criminal.


If the harm is more than theleast possible harm, then it is criminal, yes.

since this is generally true now in our system, punishment is criminal.
however, this doesn't have to be the case, especially if we transcend the paradigmn of punishing and just go to the paradigm of educating. Most people need education and punishment as such won't work and will only make them meaner
as per pavlov and the problem with negative re-enforcement.

some amount of social and civil control is good and required- but we are not in balance as is.


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prometheuspann
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01 Sep 2008, 1:43 pm

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I don't subscribe to a deterrent theory of justice,

neither d o i




Quote:
and I'm an anti-utilitarian.


okay, no problem with that.



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I am not impressed.




:shrug: :bounce:


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