Religious people and thei gods have no standard for truth...

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ZakFiend
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03 Sep 2008, 11:36 pm

... how does a religious perosn determine which god is right? How would you know if you weren't deceiving yourself? since all truth is derived from the world itself and any untruth must be compared against some standard. It seems to me, to be religious you go off into relativistic never never land and never return.



greenblue
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03 Sep 2008, 11:40 pm

"What is Truth?" - Pontius Pilate.


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ZakFiend
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03 Sep 2008, 11:47 pm

greenblue wrote:
"What is Truth?" - Pontius Pilate.


Existence. i.e. do you believe you exist? if yes, then you believe in truth. Otherwise you have contradiction. In fact you can't even navigate or think a thought or have even a single perception if truth doesn't exist (yes it is true there is something there, it is true there is not something there)

Pilate sucked at reasoning.



Awesomelyglorious
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04 Sep 2008, 12:08 am

I am undecided as to my own existence.



MADDuck
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04 Sep 2008, 1:15 am

Truth is relative to the speaker.

We all have truths

we invent our gods, (In OUR own image) and then tack on whatever truths are convenient at the time. Or the truths that help us 'fleece the fold' if you know what I mean. If not, just imagine this 'truth,' "You must give up 10% of your money unto me." etc.....


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ZakFiend
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04 Sep 2008, 1:29 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I am undecided as to my own existence.


Then you should see a psychiatrist immediately! :P



ZakFiend
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04 Sep 2008, 1:31 am

MADDuck wrote:
Truth is relative to the speaker.


No it's not, i.e. you can only navigate in the world if truth is NOT relative. Yes something exists and is there, no there is not something there, so I can move there.

Your senses pre-compute and pre-test those things beneath your awareness. If you don't believe it try driving your car blind... oh wait you wouldn't because you accept the truth.



chever
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04 Sep 2008, 1:35 am

Claiming that everything is true-relative is a silly postmodernist line of thought


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BallisticMystic
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04 Sep 2008, 1:36 am

Truth to me is when it all makes sense, when I no longer have any questions because I "know".


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oscuria
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04 Sep 2008, 1:42 am

It seems to me that people here can't handle the truth.


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greenblue
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04 Sep 2008, 1:59 am

oscuria wrote:
It seems to me that people here can't handle the truth.

Truth? What is truth?


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z0rp
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04 Sep 2008, 2:16 am

oscuria wrote:
It seems to me that people here can't handle the truth.

And what exactly is the truth?



BallisticMystic
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04 Sep 2008, 9:32 am

Exactly.

If you don't already know the truth, how would you recognize it?

It's pretty obvious that everything in the external world is an illusion or figment of our imagination but is there anything underlying it that's "real"? Same goes for the internal world of dreams and visions, there's really no difference save for the direction of projection. So what is real?

I believe it's to be found in the borderland between our inner and outer worlds. We pass through it briefly when waking and falling asleep. People who discover and invent things almost always get their intuitive knowledge in a flash while in this borderland and it is a favorite playground for autistic savants like me.

Einstein used to try to enter and maintain this state by holding a large ball bearing in his fingers over his bare toes. When he started to fall asleep his fingers would lose their grip and the ball bearing would crash onto his toes. While it did train him to maintain that state between awake and asleep, he also said that it messed up his sleep patterns for years afterward.

The real world is not our waking world, not our dream world, but whatever is in between projecting both those illusions.

Is that "truth"?

I'm not really sure, but that is where I'm looking for it.


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Awesomelyglorious
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04 Sep 2008, 9:38 am

But anyway, the religious standard for truth is quite clearly: "does this follow from the supposition that my God is real?" Anything that cannot follow from that is false, and things that do not follow from that go on to other epistemic means.

I mean, take Proverb 3:5. It does not say, "find the truth for yourself", instead it says "trust God instead of other means of finding truth".

It seems to me that relativistic never never land though is at the foundation of human understanding. People think what they want to.



Aspie_Chav
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04 Sep 2008, 10:16 am

Beyond excepting the religion from your culture as the truth of the universe, there is none; However, religions do follow the laws of evolution so it is a simple case of survival of the fittest. Since religions is an evolved lie, you would use lies to validate it, not scientific truth.



z0rp
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04 Sep 2008, 10:59 am

I should really make separate threads for things like this as I hate changing the subject of some threads on occasion but check this out, all twelve parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQiNSnD0iBw

Some parts are boring, yes I know, but you may want to look at the 'truth' in it. I watched it earlier today, and also there's a good chance you may have already seen it. For the record I don't agree with 'everything' in it, but I do agree with quite a lot.