Nice guys article -- good article and comments

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Women are attracted to the selfish gene. Having the selfish gene is a survival trait. Jesus was strong, noble and wise , everything God expected of him, unfortunately because he lacked the selfish gene, to many woman, he would not be attractive

Jesus was the hottest guy to have ever lived!

The alpha males are few and far between. I see that there are certain traits that nice guys lack. One is that they are not leaders.
They care too much what other people think and are afraid to step outside the box. This is what repulses women and it goes down to an instinctive level.

Most "jerks" are not true alpha males but they pretend to be and lots of women fall for it. The true leaders, in theory, should have 100 wives so that their genes get passed on. Our culture doesn't allow it but I'm sure people do sneaky things behind closed doors to compensate for this.

I just think that there should be a new frontier that we should explore so that we can evolve to the next level. Unfortunately, it seems as though not many people are interested in exploring new ideas and finding utopia.

Jesus is strong, noble and wise. He was tempted by the Devil in the desert by Satan, and Satan offered his all the kingdoms on the Earth if Jesus would bow down to him. Jesus refused him, and when Satan told Jesus to jump off a cling, so that all the angels of heaven would come and rescue Him, Jesus said "Do not tempt thy Lord your God".

Jesus didn't need romance, because he was the Son of God, or God on Earth. He was on this Earth to preach God's Word to humanity so that all might be saved by hearing and accepting it. He was here to heal the sick and work miracles so that people could have faith in God. So Jesus had need for romance, because his goal in life was to help others, and not to help himself and worry about his own needs. He was totally unselfish.

The same can not be said for human beings, for we are weak, even when we feel we are strong.

In 1st Corinthians Chapter 7:8-10, the apostle Paul says this "Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they can’t control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion". He is absolutely right, if we can not control our feelings of lust and desire, it is better for us to be married than to burn with the passion of lust and desire.

However it is interesting to note that God dissaproves of sexual immorality:

1st Corinthians Chapter 6:12-20

“Everything is permissible by me” – but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible by me” – but I will not be mastered by anything. “Food for the stomach and stomach for the food” – but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord and the Lord for the body. By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us up also. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

"Prostitute" I believe is not in the actual sense of just a prostitute. I think it means any guy or girl who engage in sexual intercourse in a pre-marital relationship, as the verse says "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said “The two will become one flesh.” I find interesting how it is better to marry than to burn with passion, but releasing passion without the confines of marriage is a sin. However I'm not going to argue with God on this, He is the one influenced Paul to say this.

Just don't start singing "Rock Me Sexy Jesus" and we'll be fine...


Not all nice guys are like that. Many guys who would consider themselves to be nice guys have leadership qualities. For starters, Jesus was overall a nice guy... he only got pissed whenever he saw hypocrisy occur at the hands of the so-called "leaders" of Judaism (the pharisees)... Otherwise he was always preaching love your neighbor and your enemy and everyone else in the world. And yet he had a substantial following of people throughout his ministry.


I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Humans, being a sentient species, are not entirely determined by their genetic makeup. Don't get me wrong, it still plays a role, but in humans, leadership is a learned trait moreso than a genetic one.


Unfortunately, American culture (which has permeated the culture of most of the developed world) is so backwards. It incorporates the worst of both individualism and collectivism, in that people will often follow trends in fashion like sheep, but have incredibly large egos that are further inflated by the status symbols that are dictated to them by said fashion trends.

That's also why I think aspies should separate from NT society, rather than assimilate into it. An aspie culture could be built on the virtues of both individualism and collectivism, rather than the negatives. Going back to Jesus for a second, this culture would actually possess alot of the moral virtues that Jesus recommended: Honesty, non-judgementalism, compassion for others, etc. Some of the less desirable aspie traits would also be diminished in such a culture since certain aspie behaviors would not be exacerbated by trying to assimilate into an NT culture.

Fodder for PPD, as there is little applied to the actual subject of conversation.


M.

Creationist garbage.

I want to go back to the theory of there being a selfish gene. This is the source of most of our problems. I think the alpha males should be replaced because the killing and greed has gotten out of hand. At one time it may have served humanity to conquer the world, but now it is just destroying it.

Leadership is a little over-rated. Not everyone can or should try to be a leader and I resent all the books and hype trying to make people think that they are better if they can emulated these qualities. Can you imagine everyone fighting for leadership status? It's chaos! So, maybe we should think differently and appreciate those that are submissive. The problem is that this is new so I say women be submissive to all males (apies and aspiettes) so we can have a gradual change that feels natural. It will take a lot of intellectualism to reach a point where we can sincerely appreciate the role that nice guys play but in the mean time, a cultural change will help us feel safe and guide us to a new level of human development

It is far greater of an attribute to be a cooperative member of society without a big ego.
You can't fake this, people just sense the alpha male/alpha female and know inherently who is the real deal. The fakers are just an embarrassment to themselves and others.

Just like aspies can fake being neurotypical, a nice guy can't fake being a "jerk" or an alpha male.
We need a paradigm shift and women need to recognize why they have this perception. I hope that someday soon we can transcend our animal nature.

So many assumptions, so little knowledge ... so many "what if's" and so few "what is's"

Nice guys are boring ... bad boys are exciting ... rich men? Well, there is all that money...

Would you be attracted to a cute, wealthy man who is mean to everyone except you?

And can we get at least one interesting thread on WP that isn't eventually trashed by religion?

Last edited by Fnord on 09 Sep 2008, 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Beauty and sexiness traits are almost universal among humans.

Last edited by LePetitPrince on 09 Sep 2008, 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I believe what my good friend here was trying to say was 'I respectfully disagree.'

Here is my two cents. Nice guys finish last because they choose to. You can get into your head an over annalize the s**t out of it(women, nice guys vs. bad guys) all you want but in the end I am a nice guy who refuses "pitty f***s" on principal alone. But I am also a failure with women ... i can get them so there is my "street cred" but can I keep them? Hell no.

It is all about balance and experience... just do not be a tool.

if you want something bad enough you are going to get it ... the question is do you really want to jump down that hole?

"I am in love with the idea of love, not love itself" -Mack Rellenst

Because for the most part the women don't believe in it themselves - most women (and this is not exclusive to the West) want the princess treatment when it comes to burdens and responsibility (for instance, when a restaurant bill needs paying, or when it comes to child custody & support in divorce), but equality (at least) when it comes to rights. Asking a guy out would be bad for their egos if they get rejected, and it would place the burden on them rather than on guys - it's much easier to sit back and do nothing and wait for guys to hit on them (and thus take all the risk and all the burden).

I don't agree with LPP that women don't like jerks, that it's just that some jerks are very masculine. Consider the 3 following types of masculine, confident men:
1. The good patriarch: a strong family man, calls the shots at home but takes his responsibilities as a husband and father seriously.
2. The playboy: he likes partying and sex, and essentially doesn't take anything seriously.
3. The jerk: the bully type, he doesn't only want sex from women but enjoys manipulating them, probably views women with contempt because they fall for it.

From what I've seen, though type 1 is much more successful with women than insecure shy men, it is nowhere near as successful as types 2 and 3. I'm not saying all women like jerks, but that many women are specifically attracted to jerks.

I used to think that nice guys were great, but now I realize that they are so superficial that they don't want to dig deeper than seeing a pretty face. They want perfection and it doesn't exist. Many nice guys fantasize about perfect beauty and don't see the beauty in the real person so they are left alone with their comic books and magazines. Keep dreaming boys. When you are ready to break out of your indoctrinated ideas about women then maybe you will see that love was standing all around you.

We like jerks because they are real.

"Truth is beauty and beauty is truth. That's all there ever was and all that will ever be."
Keats

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knEIM16NuPg[/youtube]

I'm going to jump in here.

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How are jerks any different than "nice guys" in regards to the beauty comment? Assuming that is true about "nice guys", why are you placing the burden on nice guys.

Jerks most certainly only care about looks, and having a bit of a trophy to stroke their ego. Attacking nice guys for such a trait that is GUARANTEED in jerks, seems like quite the unbalanced and skewed view. Never could there be many a worse bias. Being a jerk does not make it acceptable to gain women for chasing after looks, and simply being given a pass because they are jerks.

That is defeatist...stupid...serves no greater purpose...delusional...and did I mention stupid?

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Additionally jerks are the antithesis of real. That is why they are jerks. They are not honest, have little in the ways of ethics or morals, and are in some way or manner manipulative. They are about self-interest to a degree at best, and totally narcisstic at worst.

At least, that is what I consider the person whom is apparently "attractive" to women(according to this discussion)...whether by what name I don't know. Jerk, prick, as*hole, etc. Makes no difference. All the names are the same to me.

Why do you think jerks are somehow real? And be honest. I think you'll find yourself in a confusing position if you assume where I lay on the social heirarchy.

I like to consider myself a man of observation. Fantastical to think that I lie outside the boundaries looking up a world eating itself alive.

However, since that definition may be confusing, and one of precedent might be easier to recognize...I might best describe myself to you as this.

A jerk's jerk. I despise the immoral waste that is portrayed by jerks, and find it disheartening and pathetic. It is so completely pathetic, I see wrath upon thinking others consumed by the lie. As a result, I find no greater amusement than cutting off the problem at the head, and watching jerks dangle about mindlessly, when I add my own little bit of medicine to the pot. Seeing them run about squeemish is perhaps a great pleasure of mine.

Now I don't mean to say you are a jerk...however, I just thought I would throw in my own natured territory, so you realize that my response to the statements made, is not one of a passive, or "weak" nature, rather, is one that is made to cleanse the world's greatest lie.

I don't really feel like joining in the discussion about the 'nice guys' thing, but as usual, from an article on the subject written by a female, the blame seems to be pinned back on the males, which I think is a load of crap.
Although I'm, being honest with myself, pretty sensitive, and the archetype of the 'nice guy', I think it's unfair to make that sort of assumption. I do my best NOT to complain about that sort of thing.
The problem is that nobody seems to be prepared to meet each-other halfway. Sure, maybe it is the easy thing to moan about how nice guys finish last. But likewise, it's the easy thing to dismiss the nice guys as having no personality, and to instead opt for the superficially 'sexy' jerk.

EDIT: Read those two other articles, and it only really confirms what I thought before. Really just the female equivalent of the same whining that they complain about. Both of the girls who worte these articles complain about nice guys having no spines, yet themselves are spineless, wanting their partners to be their means of getting cheap thrills. Why the hell should guys be expected to break driving regulations and be interested in sport? It's pathetic.

I wish you would not use " we " assuming all women like what you like in a male.

I am really getting sick of seeing these stereotypical answers plastered all over the boards.

NT's are this , Aspies are that, Women are this , Men are that..

Everyone is different and the sooner those of you that make rash generalisations about people realise that there is no " normal " in any grouping, the sooner you might actually find someone that interests you, rather than assuming you know all about a person before you have given them a chance.