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poopylungstuffing
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09 Sep 2008, 11:00 pm

Ohhh...When I use the phrase NT, I think I generally refer to the culture and not the individuals. i totally understand that they are individuals, and i believe that everyone is worthy of respect....but when I experience them I usually experience them in mass and there seems to be a sort of fence between them and me that neither of us really wants to cross...I suppose it is superficial but I have a certain level of avoidance and anxiety when dealing with them..and i have sorta experienced a lifelong tendancy towards misunderstanding and miscommunication with them..from the people who bullied me in school..to my partner's family who dislikes me because I am akward and strange...to the stressful experiences I have with customers who might misinterpret me..or I them...and so on.... blah blah....it's not their fault...but I guess I sometimes use the phrase NT to um...help describe the divide...



paolo
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10 Sep 2008, 2:02 am

Much of the misunderstanding comes from the fact the we tend to equate neurotipicity with conformism, a neurological condition with a cultural one. Culture is variegated , good, bad, mostly bad in this society. All kind of behavior patterns and of systems of values are cultural elaborations: take the culture of a military school, of a televangelist sect, of the snobbish New Yorker Magazine of the elitistic Eton or Harvard. Someone whose profession is drill sergeant in the marines, may appear a NT because he has assimilated a wretched system of values, but is he a NT because he is a working cog of the military?



poopylungstuffing
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10 Sep 2008, 6:31 am

I would certainly think it would help.



DentArthurDent
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10 Sep 2008, 8:10 am

I have spoken about this problem a few times on WP. Like many here I was bullied at school, have had trouble holding down a job, been through heaps of relationships and do not maintain friends easily, these are all symptoms of having Aspergers. Aspergers makes it hard for me to behave in a socially acceptable manner. I scored really low on facial regocnition and empathy tests this is nobodys fault I just happen to have a crap gene or two.

I simply do not understand those of you who want to blame 'NT's' for OUR behaviour, yes I agree that bullying is wrong and that bullies should be educated with regard to their behviour and its affect, but why should people who dont understand AS be expected to learn all about it, for goodness sake even the pysch's cannot always pick AS so how do you expect the average person to be able to pick your disorder. People including those with AS respond to each others behaviour and unfortunately our disorder does means that WE do not respond in the expected 'normal' way.

I fully believe that it is OUR responsibility to where possible learn ways to better interact.

Unfortunately AS unlike other disorders is not visually obvious, so when we do not pick the correct social cue we just come across as annoying or inappropriate, you cannot expect the general public to work out that we have AS.

My home life was heading down hill fast, since my DX things have improved considerably my partner is far more tolerant of my behaviour , also my close friends are more understanding. I expect those close to me to have this reaction. However I think that it is inappropriate for me to accept their improved tolerance without an effort on my part to improve my interaction with them.

Rather than slag off 'NTs' because they do not understand you, why not try and fit in because after all we are the ones that will benefit from the effort.

I am aware that I have a brain disorder and that I most probably will not be able to make huge changes but I am at least prepared to try.

Just for the record all of my friends are 'NTs' and all of them would be offended that some of you think 'NT' = conservative


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paolo
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10 Sep 2008, 9:19 am

Bullying is a very serious problem, particularly in all those environments where kids and even adults are forced to stay together (schools, barracks). Bullying is nor directed only against AS people but to disables and weak.
What anyway is missing is any form of campaign of information in the institutions. At least 1% of the population is affected by AS and other forms of the autism spectrum. Teachers should know (normally they don’t) what autism is, both to avoid bullying and to be of help to kids. Bullying comes from unbalanced kids, not from NT kids. There is a general culture of bullying directed against diversity and weakness in schools and barracks, often producing great suffering, and even some time suicides.



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10 Sep 2008, 3:30 pm

as everyone can breed with everyone of the appropriate gender and produce fertile children, all humans are the same species.



DentArthurDent
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10 Sep 2008, 4:32 pm

paolo wrote:
Bullying is a very serious problem, particularly in all those environments where kids and even adults are forced to stay together (schools, barracks). Bullying is nor directed only against AS people but to disables and weak.
What anyway is missing is any form of campaign of information in the institutions. At least 1% of the population is affected by AS and other forms of the autism spectrum. Teachers should know (normally they don’t) what autism is, both to avoid bullying and to be of help to kids. Bullying comes from unbalanced kids, not from NT kids. There is a general culture of bullying directed against diversity and weakness in schools and barracks, often producing great suffering, and even some time suicides.


Well said, I do not put teachers into the 'general population' category. They have a special role in nurturing our society and MUST be aware of various disorders including ours


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Warsie
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10 Sep 2008, 7:13 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
People including those with AS respond to each others behaviour and unfortunately our disorder does means that WE do not respond in the expected 'normal' way.

I fully believe that it is OUR responsibility to where possible learn ways to better interact.


so it's okay to shed who you are, place some BS 'posture'; word choice (because of peoples' connotations), you can't dress a certain way because it implies something (for example, wearing a long sleeved shirt in summer, etc)?

what type of surrender are you referring to? If it's not being social or going to everyone's stuff, not participating in everyone's meaningless chit-hat that you don't care about, etc.

What is it :P


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slowmutant
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11 Sep 2008, 9:13 am

JohnHopkins wrote:
How is it any different to treating NTs differently? People are people.


THANK YOU! :cheers: :cheers:



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11 Sep 2008, 9:38 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
paolo wrote:
Bullying is a very serious problem, particularly in all those environments where kids and even adults are forced to stay together (schools, barracks). Bullying is nor directed only against AS people but to disables and weak.
What anyway is missing is any form of campaign of information in the institutions. At least 1% of the population is affected by AS and other forms of the autism spectrum. Teachers should know (normally they don’t) what autism is, both to avoid bullying and to be of help to kids. Bullying comes from unbalanced kids, not from NT kids. There is a general culture of bullying directed against diversity and weakness in schools and barracks, often producing great suffering, and even some time suicides.


Well said, I do not put teachers into the 'general population' category. They have a special role in nurturing our society and MUST be aware of various disorders including ours


I am aware of the home life that these kids who had bullied me had, and yes since there were a few, I know about all of their backgrounds. They were either raised by single mothers who paid no attention to them or were downright abused. Obviously these kids were hurting and insecure... so they saw me who was "weird" and "different" and I was their perfect target. I would say that many kids that bully either have a home life like that or may be terribly spoiled.. either way they are insecure and probably were not taught right from wrong. As much as I had resented those who had made my life hell during those few years.. which had a negative impact on my self esteem, there is a part of me that basically feels sorry for them. The other kids in my classes were nice to me but they obviously still didn't want to be friends with me. I was just too "weird" at the time for anyone to hang out with. But these kids probably came from more secure homes. Anyway what I am saying is.. a secure, self confident "NT" is not likely going to bully you or judge you and are the ones that are easy to educate. And yeah over the years people can change for the better, someone could have a horrible childhood and experience some life altering event which could make them more open minded and realize that their actions were not an excuse all because they had a bad home life.. but I am not sure how often that happens to kids. But ignorant "NT" adults have NO excuse if they behave like 14 year old bullies... sadly I have seen a lot of that too. I have no patience for them.


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Loborojo
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12 Sep 2008, 9:48 am

anna-banana wrote:
JohnHopkins wrote:
How is it any different to treating NTs differently? People are people.


I don't treat NTs differently, I've never even met any aspies in real life so far (at least not conciously) to even know if I would treat them differently. I do realise that NT brains function differently fron mine tho and always knew it but I can't say that about people of different race- hence my question.

:D


indeed, neurological differences and not colour of skin difference, John 8O


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