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CockneyRebel
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09 Sep 2008, 4:55 pm

I have two really good friends who are NT. The three of us go out, almost every night. There's never been a problem between us three. Dean's my Roddy, Barb's my Rita and I'm their Sid. :O)


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anna-banana
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09 Sep 2008, 5:02 pm

sure thing you can see parallels here. still though, I'm probalby overstressed about conversations about raceism/nationalism/xenophobia of any kind especially since I've been subject to discrimination myself because of my race and my beliefs so I tend to differentiante slight genetic differences to the neurological ones. especially since we share them with all the races imaginable.



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09 Sep 2008, 5:04 pm

NTs are fine as long as you don't get more than a dozen of them in a room or feed them beer.

Seriously, I think we should try to give respect to all creatures great and small- and normal.

At the same time, sanity on the issue does require us to be clear about what NTs are and what their problems are in general.
They are the ones with the insane pack psychology groupthink driven civilization, and we are the ones with the perspective to see
it as it is.

See the good and the bad in everybody. Know that there is both in everybody. Don't polarize against somebody just because they are NT. But realize that they are different creatues. Same bodies, same planet, but different brains, and enough that its meaningful
to use the word "species" as an apt and correct metaphor.

Seeing them as a different species does not have to be about thinking of them as lesser- just different.
They have their bellcurves and we have ours.


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anna-banana
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09 Sep 2008, 5:24 pm

prometheuspann wrote:
Seeing them as a different species does not have to be about thinking of them as lesser- just different.


I never meant them otherwise. :D



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09 Sep 2008, 5:44 pm

I'm an NT, and I simply don't understand the anti-NT attitude. Autism is called a spectrum because it's a wide group of people with different personalities, and neurotypicals are the exact same way. There is no clear-cut boundary between the two, if there was, we would have multiple topics a day titled with some variant of, "Do I have Aspergers?" Is there much of a difference between a very high functioning person with AS and a heavily-introverted NT?

I am interested in autism spectrum disorders for a number of reasons, so it interested me when I sought psychotherapy several months ago (for anxiety) and I was informed that I showed significant signs of Aspergers syndrome. I had already taken the Baron-Cohen test with the results having "a likelihood of AS" (I believe that I scored a 28 ), so I wasn't completely surprised. Being familiar with a lot of information on the condition, I wasn't entirely convinced that I had AS though my therapist was convinced to the point where she recommended Aspergers support groups to meet people more like myself. In the end, no diagnosis was made, and I'm perfectly happy being a neurotypical with "significant signs" of Aspergers.

But that just goes to show that this isn't some medical condition where you take and find out that you do or do not have it, this is a psychological state of being. Being a spectrum, it's ambiguous, so let's stop putting up walls where we know perfectly well that none exist.


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09 Sep 2008, 5:55 pm

Well, as has been noted before, many of the people on this planet have had some truly horrendous experiences and they speak bitterly from that background.

I remember as a teenager caucasian thinking blacks had it convenient: everything that went wrong in their lives they could blame on racism. I didn't get to have anybody to blame but me. Why were people so mean to me? Four decades later I have a much better understanding of social dynamics and how my differentness frightened people and they responded with anger because anger is a much better feeling than fear. blah blah blah.



anna-banana
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09 Sep 2008, 5:57 pm

Phagocyte wrote:
But that just goes to show that this isn't some medical condition where you take and find out that you do or do not have it, this is a psychological state of being. Being a spectrum, it's ambiguous, so let's stop putting up walls where we know perfectly well that none exist.


you're right here I guess, the boudary between the two is very superficial, I've had problems with diagnosis too so I can relate. still though, there's some very signifficant differences so even if you grow up believing you're NT (likeI did) you're always gonna be the one who "doesn't like touching/says weird random things/is unintentionnally rude/"etc etc
you're always gonna be the eccentric one, even if you don'tmind the label you'll still have to deal with it.



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09 Sep 2008, 6:00 pm

anna-banana wrote:
(likeI did) you're always gonna be the one who "doesn't like touching/says weird random things/is unintentionnally rude/"etc etc


That sounds like me. But is there a difference between an introverted, obsessive NT like myself and a person with high-functioning Aspergers (just like autism as a whole, there are differing degrees of AS), or is it about who gets diagnosed?


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prometheuspann
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09 Sep 2008, 6:05 pm

Quote:
I'm an NT, and I simply don't understand the anti-NT attitude.

that certainly changes the game of making sense to the thread.


Quote:
Autism is called a spectrum because it's a wide group of people with different personalities, and neurotypicals are the exact same way. There is no clear-cut boundary between the two, if there was, we would have multiple topics a day titled with some variant of, "Do I have Aspergers?" Is there much of a difference between a very high functioning person with AS and a heavily-introverted NT?


Yes. I am extreme high functioning and i don't even come off as introverted to most people.
mere introverts do not have all sorts of brain/mind benefits/problems/siddhis/disabilities to work with.
Quote:
and I'm perfectly happy being a neurotypical with "significant signs" of Aspergers.


Being diagnosed or non is not what defines you. Either you are or not, and no diagnosis changes this.


Quote:
But that just goes to show that this isn't some medical condition where you take and find out that you do or do not have it, this is a psychological state of being. Being a spectrum, it's ambiguous, so let's stop putting up walls where we know perfectly well that none exist


I wish that was possible. Take a good hard look at NT culture. Those walls exist because NTs constructed them. I'm an aspie living in an NT world and i have to deal with those walls. I have to define them and make sense of them, not pretend they don't exist to be PC.

I could make a running list of things. NT civilization is bunko insane. This is not me, I'm just in the place to notice it because my brain doesn't do groupthink.


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09 Sep 2008, 6:17 pm

prometheuspann wrote:

Yes. I am extreme high functioning and i don't even come off as introverted to most people.
mere introverts do not have all sorts of brain/mind benefits/problems/siddhis/disabilities to work with.


Some introverts also speak pedantically, can't read physical cues, etc., and there are some AS people who can. Not everyone with the syndrome has all of the symptoms.

Quote:
I wish that was possible. Take a good hard look at NT culture. Those walls exist because NTs constructed them. I'm an aspie living in an NT world and i have to deal with those walls. I have to define them and make sense of them, not pretend they don't exist to be PC.


Yeah, it sucks, but as any shy, socially-inept, nerdy, overly-intelligent, or any other person that defies the norms will tell you, people take s**t from society all the time. I hear people on this board complaining about bullying constantly, often blaming it on aspergers. Most of the time, it's not due to AS, it's due to simply being different. Society doesn't wage some campaign against people with AS, they have more than enough s**t to dish out to anyone that can't immediately assimilate.

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I could make a running list of things. NT civilization is bunko insane. This is not me, I'm just in the place to notice it because my brain doesn't do groupthink.


From possibly Newton to Einstein to much of the Silicon Valley intellectuals, it seems like common knowledge (especially on this forum) that our civilization couldn't have been built without those on the spectrum. Neurotypicals may be douchebags on a more frequent basis (let's be honest here...), but our world was built both NT's and those with AS, and whatever faults it may have are due to all that contributed to its current state.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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09 Sep 2008, 6:20 pm

The thought of a "low functioning" NT is humorous, so is the name "Phagocyte".



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09 Sep 2008, 6:22 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The thought of a "low functioning" NT is humorous, so is the name "Phagocyte".


It was a joke, but a fitting one. :lol:


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prometheuspann
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09 Sep 2008, 7:16 pm

Quote:
Society doesn't wage some campaign against people with AS, they have more than enough sh** to dish out to anyone that can't immediately assimilate.


yes, important reality check.


:salut:


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09 Sep 2008, 8:16 pm

prometheuspann wrote:
Quote:
and I'm perfectly happy being a neurotypical with "significant signs" of Aspergers.


Being diagnosed or non is not what defines you. Either you are or not, and no diagnosis changes this.


Quote:
But that just goes to show that this isn't some medical condition where you take and find out that you do or do not have it, this is a psychological state of being. Being a spectrum, it's ambiguous, so let's stop putting up walls where we know perfectly well that none exist


I wish that was possible. Take a good hard look at NT culture. Those walls exist because NTs constructed them. I'm an aspie living in an NT world and i have to deal with those walls. I have to define them and make sense of them, not pretend they don't exist to be PC.

I could make a running list of things. NT civilization is bunko insane. This is not me, I'm just in the place to notice it because my brain doesn't do groupthink.


NTs are individuals. Not being willing to see NTs as individuals, only seeing "NT culture" is one way of putting up those walls.

And there really are those of us who don't neatly fit into NT or autistic/aspie. It's not as simple as you are or you aren't. From all that I've read, seems to me it's pretty clear that those with a number of autistic traits but not full autism, it's not just some coincidence with an unrelated origin. There's a real true similarity.



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09 Sep 2008, 10:28 pm

JohnHopkins wrote:
Different species? Shall we treat the blacks differently as well?


yes you should 8)

Treat us as your lord and master :P

EDIT: one of me acts as HMFIC G reppin' da SOUTH SIDE of CHICAGO is to CLOSE THE POOL!

South Side is the wildest side of 'em all! Wild hundreds! :twisted:


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