Give your definition of what aspergers is

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philosopherBoi
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13 Sep 2008, 9:52 am

Aspeger's syndrome is not disease or sickness it is a a natural manifestation of how my brain works.


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samtoo
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13 Sep 2008, 10:38 am

I can't speak for everyone... the next person with AS could be a very opposite kind of person to me. The AS inside me, I guess I'll try to describe: -

It's hard to explain... it seems to help me have a unique perspective on many things, and in terms of creative music and lyrics, they are unique and rich in character (not trying to blow my own trumpet too much there. :P)

And yet... I seem to think my brain has some creature inside it sometimes that tells me things and tries to persuade me to do certain things... mischeivous thoughts, and I get into one heck of a nasty battle with my head... which can torment me. I can feel very tortured.
I don't just get paranoid about others around me, but paranoid about my own self too.

Despite this, I fight on - I fight that demon inside my head and I never intentionally harm anyone... I try hard to receive compliments well and return them.

It may seem perhaps a bit ironic or contradictory, but I'm also very upright and honest. I always try to hold onto my own values regardless of the situation... put me in a conversation with some rich boss man and I'd always speak my mind... if I'm unhappy with how they run things, I'll argue with them, even if it means being sacked. I don't care.

This is why I can't work in conventional environments. I have to try other things... in the long term I want to be a musician.

Sometimes I feel as though I'm a nasty sinister person how's using cunning to get his way, but others say this is ridiculous. It probably is.

This is very intense... I'm sorry about that.

Am I reaching out to anyone else? Anyone else get this mental thing?

BTW, I do like AS. I celebrate it, and I'm a very proud aspie... perhaps a little too proud sometimes...


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13 Sep 2008, 11:47 am

Danielismyname wrote:
A lack of social and emotional reciprocity, and an all-absorbing single interest.


This is similar to what I say, except I word it like this:

"Asperger Syndrome means that I have a hard time reading your intentions and the expressions on your face. I don't do well in social situations and I tend to avoid eye contact. I will also say inappropriate things at times and sometimes I won't react to things people say like most others would. In short, I don't 'do emotion' very well.'

I usually don't mention the all-absorbing interest because people usually figure that out on their own if they interrupt me while I'm busy. I've been known to be a complete b*tch when people bother me while I'm working on one of my projects.


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undefineable
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13 Sep 2008, 9:39 pm

I'm pleasantly surprised that 1 poster has already tried to summarise the nature of autism, rather than just randomly list its symptoms:

Quote:
autism _ _ leads to an underdeveloped (incomplete) 'self' _ _ a weak self (& a weak sense of self - self-awareness) results in a problematic imagination; which consequentially affects all forms of contact


I'm not sure it's quite that big and scary however, nor do I buy the theory that NTs recognise all of everyone else's feelings AT BIRTH and that autistics never recognise any. Don't children learn by intuition?


This leads me back to topic! I'd suggest that autism, in its varying degrees, is the failure of normal levels of ability in the processing of (and response to) fast-moving information to develop. Since this ability, which forms human socialising, is the most complex system in the known universe, one would expect it to go missing on occasion, and for its absence to make everyone wonder if anybody's at home. {Murphy's Law!}


But what is the source of the symptoms of autism? Maybe that's asking too much in an open forum; it's always easy to say 'I'm different; autism's cool; end of story', especially given the numb neutrality that often seems to characterise the emotional lives of aspies, besides the obvious point that we don't know any different. As for whether an NT could expand and bend their mind-space to absorb autism, one writer (Varlam Shalamov) had this to say about some such far-out experiences:

'There are things [there] that no man {substitute NT} should see; and if he does see them, it is better for him that he should die'



Last edited by undefineable on 13 Sep 2008, 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

undefineable
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13 Sep 2008, 9:54 pm

Another thing that may have been missed before (and which will therefore now be ignored :wink:) is the question of an ontological ground on which AS and (if I'm right) NT minds rest: Do we share the same human spirit and basic desires with NTs at the outset, these being re-directed towards any remaining possibilities by the bottlenecks that we know autistic brains create? And while we can imagine how the character of our minds may be altered by the main known difference in autistic brain structure (shorter and more densely-packed nerons), can we also appreciate how the connections (in kind) and similarities that remain fit into this comparison of normal and autistic brains and minds?



Eggman
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14 Sep 2008, 12:46 am

Liberation.



oblio
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14 Sep 2008, 3:31 am

undefineable wrote:
I'm pleasantly surprised that 1 poster has already tried to summarise the nature of autism, rather than just randomly list its symptoms:

Quote:
autism _ _ leads to an underdeveloped (incomplete) 'self' _ _ a weak self (& a weak sense of self - self-awareness) results in a problematic imagination; which consequentially affects all forms of contact


[...]

I'd suggest that autism, in its varying degrees, is the failure of normal levels of ability in the processing of (and response to) fast-moving information to develop.

[i'd suggest processing of information (at any speed) is included in the phrase 'all forms of contact' -
in my view, any sensorial perception is the start of a contact-process]



But what is the source of the symptoms of autism?


A weak self would be much more vulnerable in any sensorial environment, so it could experience any input with increased intensity, it would also have more trouble in interpreting=processing the sensorial input, i.e. making sense of it all would not come naturally (which is where the weak imagination comes in)
My best image for this weak self: it's possibly not even in the electrical wiring itself (the quality of which might be related to to quantity of vulnerability), but essentially & quite simply:

we, the electrical system, lack grounding
or: we lack a certain 'gravity' which precludes us from being 'groundable'


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undefineable
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14 Sep 2008, 6:08 am

Part of me wants to believe you, and bask in the gothic splendour of knowing that we auties alone lack souls, Oblio!

One problem with your definition is that you haven't defined or explained your terms -'weak', 'self', 'electrical system', 'gravity', 'grounding', but I may still be persuaded. The main problem is that neuroscientists often suggest that there is no self, atleast none that they can pinpoint_

I would prefer to define self as the capacity to process information, so we may still agree. Notice how aspies are often better at taking on simple, static information (such as academic knowledge) than NTs, since it falls under the latters' radar.



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14 Sep 2008, 6:31 am

ah, you're largely confusing definition and some imagery

that leaves me just with 'weak' & 'self'

weak: quite specifically underdeveloped, unripe

self: i'll refrain from entering an endless philospohical discussion, but
refer to M. Delfos, A Strange World, who arrives at a neurological self, which is built on an unconscious biological self(awareness)


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14 Sep 2008, 6:59 am

Pobodys_Nerfect wrote:
I describe it as an inability to communicate with girly types.


I find that it's hard for me to do the same thing.

On the plus side, AS makes me the strong-minded individual that I am.


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14 Sep 2008, 7:50 am

if you are sure you have asperger syndrome, then you will have had a lifetime of experience in trying to explain to bewildered people why you do what you do (or do not do what you should do)

people just give up on you after a while.
they no longer get offended.
they just get used to it.

at school, the teachers knew i had autism, so they did not feel insulted by my lack of interest in them, but the kids always needed to know why.
there is no "why" as far as reasons that are deliberate.

at my work, they know i am autistic, as the bosses needed to inform everybody that i was not being unfriendly to them.

i am cold and do not look at people in the eye.
they think i do not like them.

i just forget to look because it is not important to me. i forget.
if i do look at their eyes, they get the sensation i am studying their iris's rather than "connecting" with them anyway. (they are correct actually.)
i can not see what everyone else sees in eyes.
they are just objects to me.
i can not "see" out of other peoples eyes like NT's can.

i am not inclined to congratulate or console.

if someone gets a promotion or wins a car, or gets a high score in a test, i will not bother to comment because nothing comes to mind.

if someone is grief stricken, then i can not determine what they are feeling and i have no idea what to say, so i leave it to others to deal with.

i remain in my world forever and can only see from deep in my own subjectivity, what that is out there in the social world of people.

i can not tell what runs through a wolfs mind when it howls with it's pack at the moon.

i do not know what a peahen feels about when the peacock splays his tail open to her.

likewise, i can not tell what people's feelings are.

what do they "feel" at a football match when they go beserk at a goal? why are they so elated? it was not them who kicked the goal. they may have all had large bets on it maybe, but other than that, i have no idea.

why do females cry at weddings? what runs through their head?
why are they sad , and yet say they are so happy?

i know why they cry at funerals because i lost a cat once and i cried as i felt so alone without him.
the only other times i cry is if i hurt myself.

but why does a mother cry when her son comes home from a war?

who knows.

if someone starts to talk to me about something i do not have a current interested in, then i can not last long with the politeness to "listen" (which means keep quiet and stay there with your ear cocked their way).

after a minute or so, i will excuse myself somehow or another and get back to what i was originally thinking about.

in order to understand "aspergerness" it is necessary to know how fundamental autism is, and then think of people with varying degrees of both intensity, and mastery over that prevailing condition.

i am lower functioning than most here, but i still am just a little above the HFA mark.

autism is "selfism".
"auto" means "self".

it is not "selfishness" that is an nt equivalent.
"selfishness" is a greed and desire to serve ones self.

it is also not "conceit" which is another form of "self" absorption and stems from a "superiority" complex (subducted inferiority complex). (conceit takes on often a religious or intellectual theme)

"selfism" is like being stuck inside your own version of the world, and never having the "windows" open so the breeze of other peoples thoughts can freshen my minds room.

my windows are "slits" and they do not open.

i used to liken autism with being in a glass bubble that is a one way mirror.
the mirror is on the inside.
since one way mirrors can be seen through if you get up close and cup your hands around your face and press it against the mirror, you can dimly see all the people out there looking at you if you peer hard.

that is a lot of work.
they can see me fine.
but the expressions they see on my face, are those of an almost blind person in the bubble trying to make out their emotional outlines.

then when i was about 12, i heard a song by jimi hendrix and it seemed to be all about me.

the first verse went


"i used to live in a room full of mirrors,
all i could see was me.
then i took my spirit and i smashed those mirrors.
now the whole world is here for me to see"


i wished i had the spirit or knew what it was even in order to grab it and smash my way out of my glass one way mirror bubble.

but autism is a neuronal thing and can not be escaped from.
it is in your building blocks, so only death removes it.

all the people at work treat me ok, and they do not try to engage me in their conversations any more and they leave me be.
but they all want me alone to look at problems they have with the system.

they have a certain reverence for my ability to disseminate their predicaments easily (i just run the program in my head and realize where the error occurred)

i wrote the system, but there are a few "helpers" employed to deal with minor system problems.

the bosses want me working on new things rather than going around fixing little cracks.

but the employees always exaggerate their problems so i am called in, and when i get there they say "thank god you're here! now i can get my work done" even before they tell me the problem.

so it balances out.
never would they invite me to their daughters wedding for example, but i am the very one they all want to look at their computer problems.

if you are autistic and you take the decision to hide it, then you are going to be stressed.
NT's are all like "concert pianists" in their intuitive ability.
you can not pretend to be a concert pianist in a room full of them.

if you do, then one day they will ask you to play, and you will be so sad you lied.

if they know you can not play, then if they accept you anyway, then they will never go away.

people who treat you bad only on the basis of having autism are such low value people, and i have uncloaked them by not withholding i have autism.

NT people may have those bigots as friends without ever knowing how black their hearts are inside.

but i see the raw prejudice of people and it makes weeding people out easier.

and some people like to bully.

if someone wants to follow me and start to harass me (not at work but like at a tavern), i will turn and confront them with my puzzled attitude (i tell them i would like them to explain immediately their intentions toward me, and then i will determine what i will do, and that they should not provoke me into an unconsidered response by refusal to explain what they are doing), and they can not work out what i am about to do and they always back off.
they think i may be concealing some sort of intended onslaught or something.

if i tried to appeal to their NT expectations, i think i would be drowned in trouble.

anyway, that is what i think.
i am quite lower functioning than you i suspect, so what i say may not be relevant.



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14 Sep 2008, 1:53 pm

that's a very powerfull post b9.

I almost started doubting I actually have AS...


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15 Sep 2008, 3:57 pm

For simple & straightforward, I think Callista has the right idea - keep it specific (they can learn all the nuances with time.)

But I really love the way the Aspie Characteristics are written!

Magique wrote:
I just found this and I like it. Aspie Characteristics


I'm going to have to memorize a few of those, myself - even if I don't relate them to AS, they will come in handy when I have to do the self-evaluation for my annual performance review at work.



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15 Sep 2008, 4:04 pm

A God forsaken disorder.



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15 Sep 2008, 5:07 pm

Brandon-J wrote:
I'm a straight forward person and I like to be that way with other people. I want to be able to explain why I may act weird or act really quiet at times. So Im asking yall how would you go about telling somebody that you have aspergers with the most simple but understandable definition of what it is. I think it would be best for me to tell people that im comforable with about it rather than hide who I am especially in a work environment.

Better to say nothing, IMNSHO.

But if you absolutely MUST, then I'd say I was socially disabled.