Palin canceled and replaced 7 times in one week

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sinsboldly
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21 Sep 2008, 6:24 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'll have to look at that and see where its corroborated.

sinsboldly wrote:
Many writers have noted the many shades of conservative hypocrisy on view here: when Jamie Lynn Spears gets pregnant, it is considered a symptom of liberal decadence and the breakdown of family values; in the case of one of Palin's daughters, however, teen pregnancy gets reinterpreted as a sign of immaculate, small-town fecundity.


I think with Jamie Lynn Spears its like Paris, its not her unwed pregnancy that's sign of liberal decadence, its that she's famous for.....what exactly?


sinsboldly wrote:
And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of "the dysfunction in the black community"?


How much did you hear about Chris Gore smoking weed? I can't say much for sure, just that in these areas - conservatives have indeed taken the high road on average, Bill Cunningham's sort of a odd character but as far as much of anyone else; I'm fairly certain it would be - per ratio, less than the pile-up Palin's getting.

Back to the company she keeps though, you may have seen my post with about 20 links regarding Bill Ayers, ACORN, Saul Alinsky, Weather Underground, I don't think we have much less radical over there either. That and these things in specific are barely getting touched by the media, and like with Clinton, the small stuff is getting played over and over about Obama to make it look as if there's nothing else on him (with Clinton, the Lewinsky thing was perfect - everyone was dialed in on that, the missile technology to China and other things of that nature were almost nonexistant in popular dialog).

Now Palin on the other hand - she's looking like she fell asleep at a wild frathouse party with her shoes on, you can barely see her under all the black marker, flour, and cardboard super-glued to her. Barack is a similar vote threat to the right but I don't think he's been antiqued like that, attacks on his positions have been made, references to him as the second coming of Jimmy Carter, references to him being a deer in the headlights without a teleprompter, the rest is mostly if not all issues.


so, you need corroboration for Sarah Palin but you don't check your facts much with Obama.

and when was Chris Gore running for Vice President?

Merle


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techstepgenr8tion
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21 Sep 2008, 10:54 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
so, you need corroboration for Sarah Palin but you don't check your facts much with Obama.


http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt77758.html

There's a fair amount there and it isn't something I just heard once or just recently.

The claim that Palin is a religious wing-nut though, if its true its true, if it isn't it isn't, I'll do my research, I'll figure it out as best I can. If a point contradicts my own views what matters more to me in the end is the factual basis. I'm not writing it off, if it is true it may take me a second to absorb it and figure out what kinds of implications it really has regarding the bigger picture.


sinsboldly wrote:
and when was Chris Gore running for Vice President?


His dad did run for president 3 years earlier; more on the correlation you made in the hypothetical that one of Obama's daughters had been 17 or 18 and got pregnant. Another thing you haven't seen, which would have been both a very unfair and uneasy jab, would have been Obama's brother essentially living homeless in Africa - it would have been very tacky for someone like Limbaugh, Hannity, or someone like that to have given him maybe $50,000 and said "See, why can't you take care of your own brother?" - again, it would have been very distasteful, everyone would have got it; and I'd really think that running after the hypothetical you put out there would have been something the right would have only seen as no more than self-destructive to their own integrity and capability.



sinsboldly
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21 Sep 2008, 11:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
so, you need corroboration for Sarah Palin but you don't check your facts much with Obama.


http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt77758.html

There's a fair amount there and it isn't something I just heard once or just recently.

The claim that Palin is a religious wing-nut though, if its true its true, if it isn't it isn't, I'll do my research, I'll figure it out as best I can. If a point contradicts my own views what matters more to me in the end is the factual basis. I'm not writing it off, if it is true it may take me a second to absorb it and figure out what kinds of implications it really has regarding the bigger picture.


sinsboldly wrote:
and when was Chris Gore running for Vice President?


His dad did run for president 3 years earlier; more on the correlation you made in the hypothetical that one of Obama's daughters had been 17 or 18 and got pregnant. Another thing you haven't seen, which would have been both a very unfair and uneasy jab, would have been Obama's brother essentially living homeless in Africa - it would have been very tacky for someone like Limbaugh, Hannity, or someone like that to have given him maybe $50,000 and said "See, why can't you take care of your own brother?" - again, it would have been very distasteful, everyone would have got it; and I'd really think that running after the hypothetical you put out there would have been something the right would have only seen as no more than self-destructive to their own integrity and capability.


it would be good if you kept in mind I was quoting from a Newsweek article I duly documented it by giving the website address. I said nothing. I don't "know" anything. I merely posted excerpts from the article.

I live in a state where marijuana is legal for medicinal purposes and forget the backwards mentality of the rest of the country.

The way I see it truth is what people gets other people to believe is the truth.

Merle



techstepgenr8tion
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22 Sep 2008, 6:47 am

BTW, just sat back and read the article. Couple things noted, it is an opinion piece - taking jabs at possibility rather than a research article with corroboration from the locals. Secondly, yes, the guy's a dick; he's somehow kept himself wrapped in a cocoon real well as to probably not have many if any at all conservatives in his life, hasn't seen an intelligent viewpoint, really doesn't want to - really smells like a case of (in his regard) "F--- the truth, I like my version better". When people write with that sort of tone it says a lot (in Palin's case teen pregnancy on her daughters part was not just bad luck, it was the product of religious dogma - somehow their religion interfered with her sex education? WTF is he on).

Not trying to diss your offering it, there may well be some possibility of something with the part of the article you quoted, it may bare further investigation, but I think I'll wait until its not just low-brow speculation and accusations in opinion articles.

This is a smashingly obvious reminder though, liberals really need to stop thinking they're vastly superior in intelligence to conservatives; its a joke.



sinsboldly
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22 Sep 2008, 8:31 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
This is a smashingly obvious reminder though, liberals really need to stop thinking they're vastly superior in intelligence to conservatives; its a joke.


and the conservative could consider they might not be vastly morally superior, don't you think?

Merle


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22 Sep 2008, 11:10 am

sinsboldly wrote:
and the conservative could consider they might not be vastly morally superior, don't you think?

Merle


I don't think that's really how its being called. Conservatives believe that most liberals are well intended, believe that they're doing the right thing, they beg to differ on a lot of the policy points across a broad spectrum of issues.

On another note, part of the reason that article troubles me - its very common place. Charlie Wrangle was being interviewed by Hotair, called her 'disabled', you had I think it was SNL or another show insinuating that Todd Palin was banging his daughters. That article being in Newsweek of all things at least in media terms shows a degree of depravity that you won't see with people going after Obama. With Obama its taxes and his ties to socialism as well as the radical left (and yes, he was voted most liberal senator in his most recent year, I think it was in aggregate he was 2nd most? I've heard both figures offered). What is sad is that the left gets a way with things, constantly, everyday, in the court of public opinion and clearly stated in the media that the right would be destroyed if they even came close to voicing the same incendiary ad-hominem - comparisons which I don't even want to repeat even in analogy because its too low-brow.

What I don't understand though, with all that said, is how the left thinks that this will make people more likely to vote for Obama. Even with the current scandals regarding all the financial banking and mortgage institutions that are falling down all around us, you would think it would drop McCain 5 to 10 points just because it would look on the surface - at least as its being portrayed, that its all the GOP's fault. I think part of the reason this hasn't devestated McCain is largely due to the Clarence Thomas treatment Sarah Palin is getting these days.



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22 Sep 2008, 12:18 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
and the conservative could consider they might not be vastly morally superior, don't you think?

Merle


I don't think that's really how its being called. Conservatives believe that most liberals are well intended, believe that they're doing the right thing, they beg to differ on a lot of the policy points across a broad spectrum of issues.


BS, Tech. I lived in Colorado Springs. Conservatives HATE Liberals like myself. And after living there for years, I have been bent and warped, and now think the same way towards them. :evil: I have no use for backwards thinking, hateful cowards and hypocites who throw their kids out on the street if they turn out gay, or bash those who have abortions until their dear little b***h has one, or those who bash teen pregnancy until their little b***h has one.

Go back under your rock. :thumbdown:



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22 Sep 2008, 12:36 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
That article being in Newsweek of all things at least in media terms shows a degree of depravity that you won't see with people going after Obama.


The unethical fringe on the right has been busy slinging charges against Obama for months. Now McCain himself is approving attack ads which any unbiased observer describes as untrue.


techstepgenr8tion wrote:
(and yes, he was voted most liberal senator in his most recent year, I think it was in aggregate he was 2nd most? I've heard both figures offered).


Here are the votes that the conservative magazine National Journal used to rank a senator as conservative or liberal:
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/votes.htm

Obama supported an increase in the minimum wage, voted against giving uninspected Mexican trucks the ability to come into the US and compete against American truckers, voted symbolically against the Iraq war, and concretely, voted to give soldiers a longer period at home between tours of duty in Iraq, he voted for the State Children's Health Insurance Program, and voted for preventing people serving on FDA advisory panels if they have a conflict of interest. He voted to raise income taxes on those making more than $1 million, with the income to be used for funding the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. If those are liberal policies, then America needs more liberals.



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22 Sep 2008, 2:37 pm

monty wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
That article being in Newsweek of all things at least in media terms shows a degree of depravity that you won't see with people going after Obama.


The unethical fringe on the right has been busy slinging charges against Obama for months. Now McCain himself is approving attack ads which any unbiased observer describes as untrue.


techstepgenr8tion wrote:
(and yes, he was voted most liberal senator in his most recent year, I think it was in aggregate he was 2nd most? I've heard both figures offered).


Here are the votes that the conservative magazine National Journal used to rank a senator as conservative or liberal:
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/votes.htm

Obama supported an increase in the minimum wage, voted against giving uninspected Mexican trucks the ability to come into the US and compete against American truckers, voted symbolically against the Iraq war, and concretely, voted to give soldiers a longer period at home between tours of duty in Iraq, he voted for the State Children's Health Insurance Program, and voted for preventing people serving on FDA advisory panels if they have a conflict of interest. He voted to raise income taxes on those making more than $1 million, with the income to be used for funding the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. If those are liberal policies, then America needs more liberals.


Amen, brother. America would be much better off if we could get things like these on the books.



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22 Sep 2008, 2:58 pm

Hurricane_Delta wrote:
BS, Tech. I lived in Colorado Springs. Conservatives HATE Liberals like myself. And after living there for years, I have been bent and warped, and now think the same way towards them. :evil: I have no use for backwards thinking, hateful cowards and hypocites who throw their kids out on the street if they turn out gay, or bash those who have abortions until their dear little b***h has one, or those who bash teen pregnancy until their little b***h has one.

Go back under your rock. :thumbdown:


And yet here you are generalizing about a whole group of people, and spreading hateful rhetoric about them. At my highschool we had an epigram painted on the wall that read "The broader the statement, the narrower the mind", you might think about that before using such a wide brush. This kind of generalizing does your viewpoint no good, it only makes you appear as the hypocritical and intolerant one.


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22 Sep 2008, 3:23 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Hurricane_Delta wrote:
BS, Tech. I lived in Colorado Springs. Conservatives HATE Liberals like myself. And after living there for years, I have been bent and warped, and now think the same way towards them. :evil: I have no use for backwards thinking, hateful cowards and hypocites who throw their kids out on the street if they turn out gay, or bash those who have abortions until their dear little b***h has one, or those who bash teen pregnancy until their little b***h has one.

Go back under your rock. :thumbdown:


And yet here you are generalizing about a whole group of people, and spreading hateful rhetoric about them. At my highschool we had an epigram painted on the wall that read "The broader the statement, the narrower the mind", you might think about that before using such a wide brush. This kind of generalizing does your viewpoint no good, it only makes you appear as the hypocritical and intolerant one.


And why should I treat them with any care. They didn't. They deserve whatever treatment they get. I have very rarely seen a conservative with anything OTHER than hate or loathing. After years of that treatment, I became bent. In essence, I have Liberal ideas, but an attitude like that of many conservatives in Colorado Springs.



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22 Sep 2008, 4:19 pm

Hurricane_Delta wrote:
And why should I treat them with any care. They didn't. They deserve whatever treatment they get. I have very rarely seen a conservative with anything OTHER than hate or loathing. After years of that treatment, I became bent. In essence, I have Liberal ideas, but an attitude like that of many conservatives in Colorado Springs.


Who is "they"? You're making a set of assumptions about all conservative people that is false and insulting, and what annoys me is that you'll generally get a pass for it, unlike if you made similar generalizations about ethnic or cultural groups. If you are as liberal as you claim to be, you'd respect people's rights to have differing opinions, and not simply trash whole groups of people because you may have had a bad experience with a few of them. Fundamentally, it's exactly the same as reductio ad Hitlerum, focusing on a few bad apples that happen to belong to a certain group in order to impugn everyone in the group. As you yourself prove, intolerance and bigotry are not vices exclusive to conservatives.


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22 Sep 2008, 6:05 pm

Prove to me that there are 10 decent conservatives here who do not tear apart a Liberal when they see them. Yeah, I have met some nice ones, but they were a miniscule minority in COS. Also these Tories have to be reasonable, not listen to Limbaugh, and dislike Obama's politics, not the person, and cannot believe the rumors spread by various right-wing organizations. Good Luck with that.



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22 Sep 2008, 8:25 pm

Hurricane_Delta wrote:
Also these Tories have to be reasonable, not listen to Limbaugh, and dislike Obama's politics, not the person, and cannot believe the rumors spread by various right-wing organizations. Good Luck with that.


As far as 'rumors' are concerned, the best way to check that sort of thing out is to go to the source - either www.senate.gov or www.house.gov. The bright side of the media skew is that conservatives have to double and triple-check their facts when they're discussing key issues. The economics behind the subprime crash, Fannie and Freddie, AIG, etc. for instance - whether to bail out or not to bail out, that's a huge mess that not even the best economists seem to agree on (most agree that it was necessary, as much as they hate to say it but they differ on how much will be recovered and how much of it is just a temporary loan) - that we are seeing more and more to be a bipartisan mess. As for the rest of it though - its out there and spoken quite well and without ad hominem implications.

As for any rumors that Obama is somehow a secret muslim or anything like that - there may be a few like that but the majority of people think its both a crock and completely unfair (he was raised in Indonesia for a bit, can't remember if he had a bit of Koran but that's like what, kindergarten, 1st grade, he was probably paying about as much attention to that as any of us were at that age in Sunday school - so its really irrelevant).

All the same though, I'd really encourage you to examine the facts without thinking of the people you know in Colorado Springs. Not that I'm in any way saying that you'd see things my way, only that you notice both sides are full of their own BS on different levels and a lot of what you'll accept as truth (and what most people do) tends to be less debating what's literally true but more or less debating the salience of certain things (like the war on terror for instance) and critiquing more or less how they're done, what was a worthwhile strategy and what wasn't, whether or not we need more international compromise, etc.. The people around you may be dips but they don't write reality, reality writes itself more or less and its really something external to us - there is a bottom line truth, you may be closer to it or I may, I just appreciate when we're all able to bring good points to the table and have constructive debate (I've enjoyed chatting things out with LKL, ska, and some of the other people around here because they are making me thing and when new facts come in that challenge my beliefs I welcome them - getting a bit closer to the truth at the end of a discussion or debate means more to me really than specifically being right in the debate).



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22 Sep 2008, 9:49 pm

monty wrote:
The unethical fringe on the right has been busy slinging charges against Obama for months. Now McCain himself is approving attack ads which any unbiased observer describes as untrue.


That's a bit loaded, what are we talking about specifically?

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
(and yes, he was voted most liberal senator in his most recent year, I think it was in aggregate he was 2nd most? I've heard both figures offered).


Here are the votes that the conservative magazine National Journal used to rank a senator as conservative or liberal:
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/votes.htm

Obama supported an increase in the minimum wage, voted against giving uninspected Mexican trucks the ability to come into the US and compete against American truckers, voted symbolically against the Iraq war, and concretely, voted to give soldiers a longer period at home between tours of duty in Iraq, he voted for the State Children's Health Insurance Program, and voted for preventing people serving on FDA advisory panels if they have a conflict of interest. He voted to raise income taxes on those making more than $1 million, with the income to be used for funding the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. If those are liberal policies, then America needs more liberals.[/quote]

Its great to see some of the differences between Obama and Hillary, though that's about the limit to the helpfulness of that list (also leaves out much bigger and much more interesting issues which are talked about a bit more).