Page 2 of 4 [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Ishmael
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,310
Location: Australia

04 Oct 2008, 3:42 am

This GF-CF idea is a joke. The effects are identical in autistics/non autistics. Unregulated placebo-type treatments can be dangerous when considering unknown factors. People who peddle it as an end-all "cure" to autism are drawing attention away from real research, and further restricting what limited choice classically autistics have to begin with.
This notion that there is no harm is a short sighted one. Whilst there are little immediate problems, future repurcussions on a far greater scale are terrifying. Ever see these groups with their full-page newspaper ads, TV ads, touting anectdotes as fact, and labelling autism in the wrong light - a thing that steals the real child, leaving a "place holder". That is no interpretation, they have said just that much themselves. They don't want a better life for their autistic children, they may think they do, but what they want is for their children to be better suited to attain that life. Strangers with the same face, and it is astonishing how they speak of their children as being shells with their "true" child trapped, screaming inside.
That may emotionally well intended, but one sided and unreasonable. Their anger at being denied their perfect child leads them into hate groups targetting anybody who disagrees with them - the vehement displays here are little more than reactionary. Their pushing at a dangerous game, with stars in their eyes.


_________________
Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh?


Ishmael
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,310
Location: Australia

04 Oct 2008, 4:08 am

Oh my god! I just got 3G access and saw that Canadian video!! Holy hell...
People cheered and clapped?! She said she preferred the distinction that autism is a disease, that an autistic person isn't really a person, just hindered by the disease?! Who allowed her to graduate from school!! ! Primary school!! So, my savant abilities are disease superimposed upon a feux personality? People support her?!
This womans celebrity status makes her idiocy dangerously infectious!
Why is it we never see one of these "recovered" children.


_________________
Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh?


silentbob15
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 841

04 Oct 2008, 4:24 am

Ya there is still to much misinformation that people listen to if its coming from a third rate celeb, I never really
paid much attention to what she said, till watching this interview, and I wasn't impressed with what she had to say.



philosopherBoi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,452

04 Oct 2008, 6:05 am

Gluten free diets have been tested as a treatment for autism however data is mixed at best. So attack me, yet you defend someone who is promoting an unproven treatment that looks hypocritical to me. Saying that it is not harmful is not true autistic children are very picky eaters if you take away their foods they like it can cause unnecessary stress which prevents growth, also a gluten free diet is very expensive.

I was not talking about a diet when I said "I don't care if your a parent you don't have the right to decide who a person is even when they are your child, such treatments violate a child's right to give consent or not to give consent." You just assumed I was talking about the diet however for your logic to correct I would have to see the diet as a cure which I do not, I was talking about a shot or something that could cure autism that might one day be created, and how you don't have the right to kill part of who someone is without their consent. As for vaccines you know what I implied was that vaccines pose no threat in causing autism and you know that. Now then vaccines are very much needed to combat extremely dangerous diseases, yes people die because of vaccines you can die from about anything, I mean there are people who are allergic to water (Aquagenic Urticaria). If we stopped vaccinating the diseases those vaccine protect against would kill millions, in a very short period of time I kinda think not vaccinating is little more dangerous for the human race than getting vaccinated against those diseases.

The theories of gluten free diets are just opinions yet you protect them while at the same time attack Ishmael and his credibility because he got a bit emotional. Pretty much everyone on this site as far as I can see sees these theories as celebrity supported snake oil, also we are always under attack by people who lie about what autism is. There is a video out that autism speaks calls an advocacy video for autism yet it is just lies, and half truths take a look for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDMMwG7RrFQ

Now I want you to watch this video

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozsfx5lUQdU[/youtube]

I would also like to state that woman in the green shirt is nuts, I have never seen a classroom where there are 12 students and 1 teacher, also murdering your child while committing suicide are not good things contemplate about doing.

The fact is this autism causes communication problems but it does not dimmish intelligence it only creates the illusion of mental retardation. Everyone wants to be who they are, without judgment or fear, it is a trait that all life on earth shares. A parent is a guardian, and nurturer but when they start trying to change who there child is without thought of how that makes the child feel or the consequences then you know for sure they have crossed the line.

Public schools are not the best places children to learn, especially when they have autism or something ADHD. Did you know that people with ASD specifically people with AS are much more likely to be bullied than their NT peers? How can someone learn if they are under abnormal amounts of negative stress?

I am not judging your desire to improve the life of your grandson in fact I say do more I take that back do a hell of a lot more. Now I am judging what some people do to their children because they are selfish and see their child as broken then hear lies about treatment that is unproven and follow that treatment in the hopes that broken part can fixed. I see that as putting a child in unnecessary risk for selfish gains. Would you take medicine if you didn't know if it worked or not?


_________________
When Jesus Christ said love thy neighbor he was not making a suggestion he was stating the law of god.


Rebecca_L
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2008
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 386

04 Oct 2008, 12:19 pm

If the data on GFCF diets is mixed, then clearly we need more research. My guess, since autism covers a spectrum with a wide variety of biological symptoms as well as the communications issues, is that there is a subset of children with autism who will respond well to a GFCF diet. Yes, I know that children with autism are picky eaters and that change is difficult for them. That doesn't make the diet dangerous, it simply means that a parent or caregiver should make the change cautiously. Part of the reason we haven't implemented the diet yet is we're looking for acceptable substitutes for some of Aidan's favorite foods, like cheese or pancakes. However, since neither milk nor wheat are irreplaceable substances, and it is quite possible to substitute other grain, protien and calcium sorces and keep the diet nutritionally balanced. Since my grandson is lactose intolerant, we think that there's a reasonable chance that this might show some significant change in his overall progress. If it doesn't, there's no harm done. I didn't assume that you were referring specifically to the diet, I simply used it as an example. Saying that intervening in your childs life "might" change who they are is a vague charge and would cripple any parent who listens to it. There ARE parents who just want "normal" children. Some of them ARE being selfish. Some are exhausted from the requirement of caring for a child who is non-communicative, in constant pain, and a danger to himself and sometimes others. We'd love it if Aidan was "normal". As it is, he may never be independant. Do you have any idea of how we worry? What will happen to him when we die? Who will take care of him? We LOVE him. We love him just as he is. But we want him to be healthy, happy, able to communicate easily. (Heck, I worry about my cousin, who is in his 30s and also has autism. He barely talks at all, lives in a group home and works in a sheltered environment. Is he happy? I don't know. Would he live differently if he could? I don't know. What will happen to him when my uncle dies? Well, he should be okay as far as his living situation, my uncle has planned that out carefully, but will he have anyone left to connect to? I don't know. I'm trying to become more a part of his life now to make the transition easier when the time does come.)

I haven't been "defending" Jenny, I've been defending mature and reasoned discourse. I don't think that what you and Ishmael are doing is any better than what Jenny is doing, you're simply doing it on the opposite side. It is just as destructive, short sighted, and cruel towards parents who want to love and help their children.

No, I did not realize that when you said there is no risk in vaccines that you were referring specifically to autism. I took you at what you said. I tend to be very literal like that. I don't believe, for an instant, that Aidan's autism was caused by vaccines. (And he even was in a trial for an experimental 5 in one vaccination.) However, the more research I've done the more I've realized that our vaccine schedule is insane and becoming more so. By no rational measure does the average newborn require a hepititus b shot at birth. I've read studies that, in spite of their obvious intent to do otherwise, have shown a definite correlation between vaccinations and neurological disporders like tourettes and ADHD. Since most of the studies cited by the "mainstream" medical establishment touting the safety of vaccines and poo-pooing the possible link between vaccines and regressive autism were done by the CDC or others with a vested interest in keeping the vaccination machine going, forgive me for being skeptical of their results. Even through I don't claim regressive autism in Aidan's case, I don't know for sure that it didn't happen either. Like the majority of American children he recieved a Hepititus B shot at birth. He was 3 weeks premature and the shot DID contain thimerosol and aluminum. How can we know whether or not that caused a permanent change in his brain? How can you know? Answer, you don't. You don't think there's a connection, but you don't really KNOW. How will you feel if, like the tobacco industry, the vaccine machine actually IS shown to have willfully hidden and masked detrimental findings. I'm not saying anything one way or another, I'm just saying that nothing has actually been proven by either side, and I'm not closing my mind. I do NOT trust the medical establishment. Too many in my family are in research science or medicine for me to have any illusions as to their altruism.

You frequently accuse people of "lying" about autism. I find that to be a statement of fact where no fact has been shown. They may refer to autism in ways that you disagree with, but that does not make them liars. They may be wrong in their characterization of autism, but that doesn't make them liars either. It may be that the "shell" children they refer to, the ones that may or may not have been "reclaimed" through chelation or diet or whatever, never had autism at all. But at this point in time, as far as you know, they are being completely honest in what they say. To attack a person's veracity without proof because what they say is contrary to your own experience is really an attack on your own credibility. I have read many, many personal stories of parents dealing with children who really were developing perfectly normally who suddenly regressed. Hannah Polling is a perfect example of that kind of case. Maybe what she and the other children with "regressive" autism isn't autism at all. Right now, however, it is considered autism and she clearly wasn't born that way.

I speak for myself. I speak for any other parent (or grandparent) who identifies with my situation. I don't speak for parents of children with regressive autism. I don't speak for you or Ishmael. I don't speak for anyone who doesn't identify with my own understanding of the autism debate because, unlike others here, I don't claim to be an absolute authority. I appreciate your encouragement to continue to work with Aidan, rest assured we will do so. However, I wonder just HOW you determine who is being selfish in working with their loved one with autism and who is being loving. I wonder where you became an expert that is somehow able to determine that? I find being judgemental of people to be a slippery slope that leads one to arrogance and a closed mind. Jenny can be excused for such excess, she doesn't claim to be a scientist. Anyone who does claim to be a scientist, however, should act like one, in my opinion.

Neither Jenny, nor Autism Speaks, nor DAN nor any other person or entity connected with autism can be held responsible for a parent who kills his or her child. Those people are responsible for their own failure to adjust to the reality of their child's condition and to find appropriate solutions. There's a man in my area who is on trial for killing his daughter -- his neurotypical daughter -- who does he get to blame for it? No one. He was an abusive man and he killed an innocent child. The woman who suffocated her 4 year old daughter with autism is no different.

All I am saying is that anyone who feels civility is "for tourists and politicians" has already shown a lamentable lack of judgement and understanding and anything they say from that point on is suspect. This, you can't call someone on here names, but we can call anyone else names, mentality is baloney. If you can't hold yourself to the same standards of civility that you wish to be shown, then you have no opinion worth listening too. You aren't showing your decisive, hard hitting insights, you've simply shown that you are a child with a child's understanding of disagreement. (You said something mean to me; you're a big doody-head!) If that is truly what this board is about, then I'm in the wrong place. I'm happy to be shown research I haven't seen. I'm happy to discuss what I have concluded in the matter of autism and to be educated as to information I've missed. I would be happy to find ANY well set up study that actually puts the vaccine debate to rest. I am NOT happy, however, to find a site where people feel that personal attacks and name calling are acceptable and appropriate methods of disagreement. I am even more unhappy when that is coupled with a glib judgement of people you've never met because you simply "feel" that they do not accept their loved ones with autism. Perhaps, Ishmael, civility is a waste of time in your world, but in mine it opens up lines of communications. Of course, that might be the problem. Perhaps you aren't interested in communication, you simply want to make your proclamations and have them accepted by all. Here's a newsflash, that isn't likely to happen.



Ishmael
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,310
Location: Australia

04 Oct 2008, 12:45 pm

You realize that discourse is nothing definitive? Having worked, researched and tested myself, rather than googlimg as the lay man would, do I reach conclusion. Discourse is means to an end; because that end is unsatisfying to you, you cannot simply resume discourse to alter the final definition to one preferred. Discourse for sake of education is a luxury I can ill afford to hand out. Why do you assume I have reached conclusion through desire and done away with process? Fallacy.
You say that I am wrong to "proclaim" truth? Bah - what of those who's ideas are more palatable? Does that same rule apply to them? Perhaps all scientists ought to lock up their inventions and research until the common person catches up? Oh, no, sorry little Timmy - you can't have this laboratory-grown replacement heart - somebody thinks it's unfair that conclusions are drawn whilst they remain out of the loop!

What's the difference between "Wow, GF-CF must work because a mob says it does!"
and "Ishmael said this, but that doesn't work for me, so he must be wrong!"
Hm... Let me think... Ooh! I know! I'm an arrogant, science loving bastard of a man with first-hand experience as an autistic person! Tada!

Even if you shy from it, surely you must see the fallacy in an anti-scientific and unproductive approach? Surely you see the harm endorsing fringe theories even as possibilities, without skill or experience? That the aggressive, insular campaigns by these people restrict scientific freedoms? You must surely see that they have but anectdotal evidence?
But, above all, you must see how one cannot with any ease remain neutral when the bullets are heading for you? Have you experienced the anti-aspie hate those groups have started brewing? Have you experienced both sides? It's fine to be a fence-sitter and call yourself impartial, but the flak isn't flying at you.


_________________
Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh?


irishaspie
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 366
Location: ireland

04 Oct 2008, 1:59 pm

how?...what?....why does she still live?...surely people dont believe her in that video? that was a sketch show surely?



Ishmael
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,310
Location: Australia

04 Oct 2008, 2:09 pm

irishaspie wrote:
how?...what?....why does she still live?...surely people dont believe her in that video? that was a sketch show surely?


Don't worry, I'm sure the SAS are on it's way.
How do we solve a problem like jenny? With a silenced tactical modified M1A5 assault rifle and night vision, that's how. Ah, plausible deniability - gotta love it!


_________________
Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh?


irishaspie
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 366
Location: ireland

04 Oct 2008, 3:07 pm

im gonna cringe everytime i hear her name now :x



Rebecca_L
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2008
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 386

04 Oct 2008, 5:00 pm

"How do we solve a problem like jenny? With a silenced tactical modified M1A5 assault rifle and night vision, that's how. Ah, plausible deniability - gotta love it!"

Do I even need to say anything? Ishmael, I don't care what training or research you might claim. The statement above proves that you are irrational and clearly have no problem solving skills. Your claim to any kind of higher learning or research is consistently shot down by your complete disregard of the rights and lives of other human beings. Jenny has nothing on you. Apparently Wrong Planet is not a forum for anyone who disagrees with virulent attacks and violent suggestions. I'm ashamed to actually be considered an Aspie at this point. I certainly have nothing in common with people like you. Oh, and you're absolutely correct. Discourse has diddly to do with people like you. However, assuming by some miracle you actually do make a scientific breakthrough concerning autism, good luck getting anyone to look at it. You've painted yourself as a dangerous and psychopathic lunatic. Not many people are going to ever take you seriously, and you have no one to blame for that but yourself.



beau99
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Nov 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,438
Location: PHX

04 Oct 2008, 6:12 pm

Rebecca_L wrote:
"How do we solve a problem like jenny? With a silenced tactical modified M1A5 assault rifle and night vision, that's how. Ah, plausible deniability - gotta love it!"

Do I even need to say anything? Ishmael, I don't care what training or research you might claim. The statement above proves that you are irrational and clearly have no problem solving skills. Your claim to any kind of higher learning or research is consistently shot down by your complete disregard of the rights and lives of other human beings. Jenny has nothing on you. Apparently Wrong Planet is not a forum for anyone who disagrees with virulent attacks and violent suggestions. I'm ashamed to actually be considered an Aspie at this point. I certainly have nothing in common with people like you. Oh, and you're absolutely correct. Discourse has diddly to do with people like you. However, assuming by some miracle you actually do make a scientific breakthrough concerning autism, good luck getting anyone to look at it. You've painted yourself as a dangerous and psychopathic lunatic. Not many people are going to ever take you seriously, and you have no one to blame for that but yourself.

Apparently, you don't understand the concept of sarcasm.


_________________
Agender person.

Twitter: http://twitter.com/agenderstar


DiabloDave363
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2008
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 650
Location: New England

04 Oct 2008, 6:15 pm

she's a slut



Gambit
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 57

04 Oct 2008, 6:45 pm

A lot of angry responses lol. I actually admire her for passionately standing up for her beliefs. Because of her celebrity she is increasing awareness of autism and debating important issues in mainstream media. More debate is a good thing imo, for science and autism politics.



philosopherBoi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Aug 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,452

04 Oct 2008, 9:20 pm

Gambit wrote:
A lot of angry responses lol. I actually admire her for passionately standing up for her beliefs. Because of her celebrity she is increasing awareness of autism and debating important issues in mainstream media. More debate is a good thing imo, for science and autism politics.


However the awareness growing is one of lies, half truths and manipulations, she does not speak for me, and I doubt she speaks for anyone here.

Hey everyone does Jenny Mccarthy speak for you?

P.S. Ishmael I think your wrong a silenced tactical modified M1A5 assault rifle and night vision is not the best option I say we surgically implant a shocking collar modified to shock her every time she speaks.


_________________
When Jesus Christ said love thy neighbor he was not making a suggestion he was stating the law of god.


Ishmael
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,310
Location: Australia

04 Oct 2008, 11:58 pm

A shock collar, huh...? I like it! Aw, but the SAS boys are going to be a little disappointed! They were all ready to go - asking them to stop now would be like telling a kid he can't have Christmas. Just let 'em have their fun for now - they did promise to kill her just a little, after all. Very responsible of them.


_________________
Oh, well, fancy that! Isn't that neat, eh?