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philosopherBoi
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05 Oct 2008, 1:06 am

Ishmael wrote:
A shock collar, huh...? I like it! Aw, but the SAS boys are going to be a little disappointed! They were all ready to go - asking them to stop now would be like telling a kid he can't have Christmas. Just let 'em have their fun for now - they did promise to kill her just a little, after all. Very responsible of them.


Oh ok I suppose just this since they are looking forward to it, but next time we deal with a lying wretch we surgically implant the shocking collar.


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Ishmael
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05 Oct 2008, 3:19 am

Deal.


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05 Oct 2008, 1:36 pm

Rebecca_L wrote:
Wow, such vitrol. Do any of you yahoos HAVE children? My grandson has classic autism. We want him to be able to do those little things in life like drive a car, go on a date, earn a living and choose to live in his own home. I could care less WHAT he does, I just want him to be able to do what he wants. He can't. Not without a LOT of help. I'm sick and tired of you people making it sound like anyone who wants to help their loved ones with autism are shallow and unaccepting of their loved ones. Since when is it an evil act to want your beloved child to be able to navigate the world around them independantly. Some people might actually consider that goal good parenting.

I don't know if what Jenny says is valid or not, I'm not a scientist. I'm not thrilled to watch these claims of "liar, liar, liar!" though. Do any of you have any way of knowing that she is actually lying and not mistaken (if she's wrong at all)? I add the last because I haven't actually read anything she's written. I've seen a couple of interviews and she seems passionate but I haven't seen her say anything that I would take offense at. However,

"Ah, that b***h probably has a kid with CDD, but her ignorance is painting all autistics as nonverbal monsters, and all aspies as pretenders. Whattabitch."

can't be taken any way EXCEPT offensively. So tell me, Ishmael, just who is the offensive person here? Why are you so incredibly rude? And why do you try to hold her to standards that you don't hold yourself to? If you can't disagree without some basic civility maybe you should ignore Jenny and start focusing on Emily. Some etiquette lessons seem to be in order where you're concerned.

Frankly, if Wrong Planet is just a place for judgemental, big mouthed bigots to get on and badmouth anyone with a different take on life than they themselves have, maybe it's the wrong place for me. I'd rather be someplace where adults can respectfully discuss their different takes on the world without decending to the sewers for descriptive words and without believing that they have some absolute take on all that is known. Frankly, Ishmael, you're an ass and you have NO credibility in the comments you've made about Jenny McCarthy. In fact, one of the biggest lies you've told is that she's against vaccines and wants to put other people at risk. LIAR! She's simply pushing for a safer and individualized vaccine schedule and coming up with vaccines that just might be safer for people to recieve. Oh, but you don't care about that because you've made up your mind and you're the only person here who knows anything.

Pah, I'm so angry right now I need to stop before I start using uncivil words myself.



Quoted for truth.

This gets really, really annoying. Ishmael really needs to learn when to be quiet sometimes. He also needs to learn that he can speak only for himself, that a lot of what he says is false (i.e. GF/CF diets DO work for a majority of people; the science behind it is basic human evolution, nothing more, and that actually some vaccines do still contain thimerosal and they're being pushed as mandatory for children in the US and 'highly recommended' for them in others. Just to pull a couple from this thread alone).

Rebecca, I agree so much with what you're saying. I promise these two aren't representative of everyone on here, though it does feel like it sometimes. >sigh<


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philosopherBoi
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05 Oct 2008, 2:34 pm

LeKiwi how can you take that Wretch's side she uses her celebrity status to manipulate millions of people into using unproven treatments. How can you say GF/CF diets work for the majority of people huh?? I was under the impression most people can eat gluten etc. no problems are you saying that everyone can feel better on a GF/CF diet? Also even after the scientific community has proven there is no link between thimerosal and autism how can you in good conscience lie and say there is? Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that thiomersal is no longer being used as a preservative in routine vaccinations except for the influenza vaccine. I would also like to point out that the World Health Organization has stated that childhood vaccines are safe, how can you say you know better than them and other organizations like them? Is there word not creditable enough or perhaps creditability is something you only give to those whom agree with what your saying.

And don't do that little sigh it is so disrespectful with you putting yourself above us your no better than us hun I suggest you get used to it.


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LeKiwi
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05 Oct 2008, 3:33 pm

Because gluten especially has only been in the human diet for the past 10,000 years - a blink of a proverbial eye in terms of our evolution and, as such, that of our digestive tracts. Some people can handle gluten and casein, yes. The majority will feel better without it. It's estimated that up to 30% of the population has a noticeable and recordable sensitivity to the stuff; that's a pretty big portion of us.

The scientific community hasn't proven there's no link between thimerosal and autism at all. The findings thus far are inconclusive. Autism aside, mercury itself is extremely toxic to the human body for a multitude of other reasons and has no place in our vaccines.

The one in question that as I stated is being pushed as mandatory and annual is the flu vaccine. They're now wanting to give it to pregnant women as well as infants and children every year. And yes, it still contains thimerosal. I was correcting Ishmael's false allegation. Read again.

If the WHO told you it was safe to jump off the side of a ravine into a canyon would you do it? Whatever happened to doing your own research and making up your own mind instead of being told what to do by others with vested interests and no real care about who you are? Baaaa.

And don't talk to me about respect when you say the things you say about other people on this site, about myself, and about a woman who is simply fighting for safer medication for our children so other parents may be spared the trauma and agony she's been through with her own son!!

Such venom...


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Rebecca_L
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05 Oct 2008, 5:10 pm

LeKiwi, it's also in the Hepitus B shots which are routinely given to newborns in the delivery room. I looked it up myself since my son and daughter in law are planning to have another baby in the near future.

Philosopher, did you even read about the research done with the Rhesus Monkeys? It showed a definite link between autism type symptoms and vaccinations. Of course it wasn't done in America where the CDC and pharmeceutical companies could pressure for the findings to go away. Before you worship at the altar of "science" try to remember the many thousands who died because "science" said tobacco was safe and "science" said there was no link between asbestos and cancer and "science" said whatever the heck the people funding the study wanted it to say. Science is not what you seem to think it is and scientists are just as capable as any other human of being corrupted by power or money. I'm not saying every one of them are lying, but I haven't seen a well set up study yet on the subject. I also feel that stating that the MMR link was definitively proven wrong when they didn't even use the same type of subjects as Wakefield is hypocritical at best and deceptive without a doubt. But don't let me interject any reason into this discussion. I'm sure you and Ishmael know far better than I do. (That's sarcasm, by the way. Comments involving the SAS and guns is NOT sarcasm or funny. Actually it's borderline threatening.)



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05 Oct 2008, 5:19 pm

Ugh, don't get me started on the rest... to my knowledge I've had one jab in my entire life, the MMR, and that was it. And ironically, I got rubella as a kid (wasn't a big deal - bit of a rash and a sore head for a couple of days, that's it). My children won't get any vaccines unless they're totally reformulated, but somehow I can't see that happening for decades yet. :(


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Rebecca_L
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05 Oct 2008, 5:31 pm

We're going to get the baby vaccinated, but at a greatly reduced schedule. No HepB at birth, definitely Pertusus, but I'm not sure yet when, MMR as individual shots, probably no chickenpox vaccine. Don't think I'm criticizing you for not vaccinating, but whooping cough is still a problem in my area, and tetnus is a must have in my opinon. (I've seen pictures of lockjaw, it isn't pretty at all.) Fortunately, I watch the children so we don't have to worry about daycare vaccine requirements.

Oddly enough, even I have all my innoculations as a child I also had the measles as a child. (The three day variety.) Had another measles jab after my son was born because they said my immunity was "dangerously" low and then had another shot 16 months later after my daughter was born because once again my immunity was dangerously low. No more shots since then. If the immunity doesn't even make it 12 months in my body I'm obviously not going to keep an immunity. Why keep getting shots? (I medicate myself with chocolate instead. It tastes better, doesn't hurt and has the exact same effect on my basic immunity level to measles.)



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05 Oct 2008, 6:41 pm

Mmm, chocolate medication!!

I would consider tetanus, but only if my child had stood on a rusty nail or managed to cut themselves up badly whilst playing in soil or something to that effect. Basically, if they'd put themselves at risk of contracting it. Likewise a few of the others - if the child is at serious risk of a truly horrific disease (because frankly, chicken pox is not horrific) then yeah, I would consider it. But it'd be a case by case basis and not while they're young.

The rest I'll probably use homoeopathic vaccines and nutrition to boost their little systems.

Unless of course they decide to reformulate them, admit their mistakes, and make them safe and effective... in which case line me up. ;)


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philosopherBoi
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06 Oct 2008, 4:46 am

I know in the US only .5% to 1.0% of the US population is sensitive to gluten that is a far cry from your 30% of people having problems with gluten. Also lets say that your are right and 30% are sensitive to gluten then everyone should be irritable not just autistic people and by that account autism cannot be caused by gluten, the symptoms can only be magnified by the intestinal discomfort and pain.

I have said this many times, the amount of thimerosal in a vaccine is very little, not enough to do anything, we are talking about perhaps one drop worth the most. Thimerosal is not even made of pure mercery by weight it is only 49% mercery. Have you not forgotten the vaccines that you people connect to autism do not have thimerosal in them any more so if it is vaccines then what is causing them to cause autism? Your mercery has no place in the medical field however at such a minute dosage it cannot cause radical changes like you people are proposing.

Which is more appealing giving your child the flu vaccine then them developing autism or not giving them the flu vaccine then they die from the flu?

How much thimerosal would an unborn child get if the mother receives a flu vaccine? I would personally think even less normal considering that both of them are getting the vaccine and the mother is so much bigger than her unborn child but hey that's my opinion.

Hun I do my own research, apparently you don't you only listen to people like you. WHO is good organization that can provide information however I don't just stop there I look around and decide for myself something your kind is not capable of doing apparently because you can't face facts your wrong about vaccines.

Rebecca_L if infants are given Hepatitis B vaccines that contain thimerosal then how come infants are not becoming autistic right after the shot? So let me ask you this, shouldn't autism rates be higher in areas where fish is eaten more? I mean they often create Methylmercury in there bodies and Methylmercury is extremely dangerous even more so than most other types of mercery.

Anyways I do no worship the alter of science because science is not perfect because man is involved, man by nature is not perfect. Now that does not mean I don't look to science for answers, I often do but I always keep and open mind and through lots of research of my own along with studding the accounts of scientist I can safely say there is no connection between vaccines and autism besides the time they happen.

I would like to point out vaccines are not full proof it would be lovely if they were but diaereses change and adapt, and our immune systems are far from perfect.

I would like to stress you do research on shingles or talk to someone who has had shingles because it is preventable with the chicken pox vaccine.


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LeKiwi
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06 Oct 2008, 12:35 pm

Lol @ PhilosopherBoi. Stick to what you know dude!!

1 - It's an estimated <30% of the population are sensitive to gluten. The vast majority of that goes undiagnosed or manifests as other problems, such as problems with absorption leading to deficiencies in various vitamins and minerals, related intestinal/GI disorders, skin problems, headaches, CFS, growth problems, hormone problems, etc etc. Gluten sensitivity is vastly misdiagnosed if not undiagnosed altogether, but thankfully more and more people are becoming aware of it.

2 - I've never stated gluten is a CAUSE of autism at all. Why? Because gluten intolerance does not autism. That's your words, not mine. Read again.

3 - I've also never stated gluten sensitivity is a problem exclusive to autistics, because it's not, obviously. It effects up to/around 30% of the population as a whole. Autistic or not. But if you are autistic and have a gluten sensitivity, then cutting it out would have similar effects to anyone else cutting it out.

4 - I've never stated mercUry - note that spelling, there's no such thing as mercery - is a definite cause of autism, nor have I ever stated it's a sole cause of autism.

5 - The flu vaccine still contains thimerosal, which they're now trying to give to children every year from birth, and to pregnant women as well.

6 - Many vaccines are contaminated, as the method in which they're made means they can't not be. I suggest googling SV-40 in polio vaccines for one example. [SV-40 is Simian Virus 40, a cancer-causing virus from monkeys that contaminated/contaminates the very, very vast majority, if not all, polio vaccines, specifically the oral ones. And yes, viruses do cause cancer, as the current propaganda scare campaign about HPV should go to show].

7 - There are plenty of other neurotoxic additives and adjuvants, as well as other dangerous and contaminated ones, used in vaccines. This includes but is not limited to aluminium, formaldehyde (embalming fluid), monosodium glutamate (MSG), free glutamate, glycols, cells from aborted human fetuses, egg albumin, pig, cow and chickens, antibiotics, sodium borate, neomycin... all of which have the potential to cause damage to the human brain AND the human immune system obviously, as well as other systems in the body, and potentially lead to autism type behaviours, as well as countless other kinds of systemic damage and failure.

8 - Note above: we aren't just talking about autism when we say they pose major dangers - there are countless other ways in which vaccines can cause harm.

9 - People very rarely die from flu; if they do they're usually either very sick already, or the very young or very elderly with compromised immune systems.

10 - The supposed 36,000 deaths a year are mostly from complications such as pneumonia or respiratory infection, and are again usually in those groups mentioned in point 7. The true figures on annual flu deaths are around the 800-1,500 mark, generally speaking. Even the Spanish Flu of 1918 is now believed, according to research released about two months ago, to have mostly been fatal due to bacterial infections after the event, not the flu itself.

11 - I suggest you do a bit of elementary-level reading on pregnancy before you say mercury in small doses won't harm a baby. Because facts are it will. A pregnant woman needs to eat an extremely restricted diet due to the effects minute exposure to various chemicals can cause to a baby. Her babies blood is, for 9 months, her own blood too. What she eats and drinks and takes in goes straight into the bloodstream of her child. Giving vaccines whilst pregnant is extremely dangerous, given the fact that the child will likely not yet have an immune system to speak of and the brain is still developing. In reality, it takes till the age of 9 for a person to gain full immunity, and babies brains still develop for months after birth; the reason they're born when they are is simply that they get too big for the mother to continue carrying and safely give birth to.

12 - As above, if you didn't quite pick up what I was saying, your baby's blood is your own blood while you're pregnant. The relative size of your bodies has nothing to do with it. What goes into your body goes into your child's in the same strength.

13 - Don't call me hun.

14 - What's the point in giving a baby the Hep B vaccine when the chances of a child coming into contact with it are next to none, unless they live with druggies, and it will have worn off by the time they're older and the risk factors for them coming into contact with it will increase?

15 - Have a look for yourself. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbo ... able-2.pdf




Again, stick to what you know. There's so much wrong with what you just wrote that it's laughable; you've clearly not done any research at all, from pro OR anti vaccine sources!!


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06 Oct 2008, 4:56 pm

1.)Where your proof that 30% of the population is sensitive to gluten? I would like to see this study perhaps it could explain why after a big meal my family can go from happy to irritable.
2.)I never said you said that gluten was the cause of autism but some people believe it which as we can both agree to is just wrong.
3.)I agree I mean I often ask people if you have an upset stomach perhaps your puking or you have diarrhea on the way or heaven forbid both would you be happy or would you be irritable. They always respond irritable that is how I explain why gluten can help those with autism but not cure them of their autism.
4.)Sorry I got carried away, happens when I have been up for 16 hours with no naps or anything.
5.)You can get the flu vaccine without thimerosal.
6.)I did hear about the SV-40 in polio vaccines and how they were contaminated with that virus.
7.)Sadly stuff like formaldehyde is perfectly acceptable have you ever heard of sweet in low? I never knew the cells from aborted human fetuses, was in there I mean that is just sick and disgusting.
8.)Nothing is without risk, even getting blood drawn is dangerous is something happened to the needle etc.
9.)Thousands die a year from the flu, the numbers would be much higher if the vaccines were not used.
10.)We may never know but the flu is not something you want to toy with its very dangerous if you underestimate it. We should treat all disease the same, agents of destruction that can kill us.
11.)I know women have to watch what they eat when they are with child especially around fish. Vaccines do have very little mercery in them, so I say give the mother the flu vaccine, because if she is sick the baby is put under a lot of stress, and the flu can infect the baby. However I don't agree that mercery should be in it.
12.)Well yes your right your blood is your child's blood when they are in the womb however, when giving the mother the shot her body absorbs a lot of the comments of the vaccine. Its like this if you gave the fetus the adult shot it would get a large dose of the vaccine, however when the mother take the vaccine she shares the vaccine so the child gets less vaccine but gets the same benefits.
13.)How about firecracker instead of hun?
14.)Hepatitis B is very common, and highly contagious plus once you have it that's it you are stuck with it forever. The reason we don't hear of many cases of Hepatitis is because we vaccinate against the virus.
15.)As sick as that is I would prefer to get my vaccines than ever get any of that stuff, hell the flu was horrible I would kill myself if I got something like Anthrax.


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LeKiwi
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06 Oct 2008, 5:03 pm

Lol, firecracker would probably suit more as you've likely guessed. ;)

The thing with pregnancy is that the fetus' blood is the same as the woman's blood - there isn't anything separating the two; it goes straight through the placenta and the cord into the baby. There isn't any kind of a filter that means her body absorbs a lot of it before it goes into baby; it's all the same. Hence why if you don't give something to a baby, you don't give it to a pregnant woman either.


Suggest reading up on Sweet n Low and other artificial sweeteners in the meantime... they're probably the single most toxic form of food additive ever approved. The story of how aspartame was approved is like a horror story - for your own health avoid at all costs! Stevia or sugar are best. :P


As for gluten, google is your friend. Some estimate around 3% of the population are affected, others 10%, even more will guess up to 30%, hence the 'up to approximately'. Depends who you ask more than anything. But if you are feeling like that after dinner then yeah, have a look, may help it may not but no harm in trying. :)


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06 Oct 2008, 5:44 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
Lol @ PhilosopherBoi. Stick to what you know dude!!

1 - It's an estimated <30% of the population are sensitive to gluten. The vast majority of that goes undiagnosed or manifests as other problems, such as problems with absorption leading to deficiencies in various vitamins and minerals, related intestinal/GI disorders, skin problems, headaches, CFS, growth problems, hormone problems, etc etc. Gluten sensitivity is vastly misdiagnosed if not undiagnosed altogether, but thankfully more and more people are becoming aware of it.


Sources? Not attacking, just interested. A few people have said cutting gluten may help with my asthma.
LeKiwi wrote:
2 - I've never stated gluten is a CAUSE of autism at all. Why? Because gluten intolerance does not autism. That's your words, not mine. Read again.


*ahem*

Since you are so fond of pointing out everyone else's mis-spellings, and other little gaffs; I think you missed a 'cause' in there. "Because gluten intolerance does not (what?) autism."

Also, 'Those are your words not mine.' Would be correct. Read again. :twisted: "That's" is the singular reference, as in- 'that is.'

Point of note, I also make grammatical and spelling errors. So will anyone. However, pointing them out in a written debate is 1. A cheap and dirty way of trying to score points and discredit someone. And 2. Well... Glass houses... Stones... It's inevitable to screw up. I'm just sayin'.

LeKiwi wrote:
4 - I've never stated mercUry - note that spelling, there's no such thing as mercery - is a definite cause of autism, nor have I ever stated it's a sole cause of autism.


*polite cough*^
LeKiwi wrote:
5 - The flu vaccine still contains thimerosal, which they're now trying to give to children every year from birth, and to pregnant women as well.


So?

Web Page Name

and

Web Page Name

(You've gotta hunt around for it. Sorry. Great article though.)

There is always counter-research to almost any medical dilemma. Particularly with something that is wide-sweeping or considered controversial. However...

I'm going with the C.D.C on this one.

LeKiwi wrote:

6 - Many vaccines are contaminated, as the method in which they're made means they can't not be. I suggest googling SV-40 in polio vaccines for one example. [SV-40 is Simian Virus 40, a cancer-causing virus from monkeys that contaminated/contaminates the very, very vast majority, if not all, polio vaccines, specifically the oral ones. And yes, viruses do cause cancer, as the current propaganda scare campaign about HPV should go to show].


Yes. Viruses can cause cancer. SV-40 may increase the risk for cancer in humans. The jury still out however.

Just because some of these vaccines contain this (probably) dangerous agent doesn't mean that thimersol causes autism.

LeKiwi wrote:
7 - There are plenty of other neurotoxic additives and adjuvants, as well as other dangerous and contaminated ones, used in vaccines. This includes but is not limited to aluminium, formaldehyde (embalming fluid), monosodium glutamate (MSG), free glutamate, glycols, cells from aborted human fetuses, egg albumin, pig, cow and chickens, antibiotics, sodium borate, neomycin... all of which have the potential to cause damage to the human brain AND the human immune system obviously, as well as other systems in the body, and potentially lead to autism type behaviours, as well as countless other kinds of systemic damage and failure.


Antiobiotics cause brain damage huh? I suppose certain ones, under certain conditions, interacting with certain systems. Could be. However, antibiotics are grouped by function not content. Which antibiotics? Different antibiotics work different ways, do different things, function differently with different systems, etc...

Unless you were talking about how they will ultimately cause bacteria to evolve to cope with them.

Some can cause partial depression of the immune system.

This is a huge topic. I just mean in depth and breadth of information. The sheer volume of different types and interactions, and modifiers drives me bonkers.

When it comes to antibiotics, unless you have a degree in molecular biology (which, I must admit, I don't. A curriculum so heavy in it that it sank, is precisely what scared me from the veterinary medicine program at Texas A&M. 8O Yikes!), I would avoid mentioning that one completely... At least here.

Adjuvent-Immunology. a substance admixed with an immunogen in order to elicit a more marked immune response. Ummm... Yeah. It's a vaccine!

MSG-some people are very reactive to that and many are not at all.

Cells from aborted fetuses-Err... So? I have never heard of there being a risk of brain damage, or auto-immune suppression, or frankly any other side affect from the introduction of fetal cells, save a possible ethical dilemma.

Egg Albumin- Is supposed to do... What? Exactly? No really. I'm baffled by this one and too lazy to look it up.

Formaldehyde/aluminium/sodium borate-You have a point.

The rest... I dunno. I flat don't know. I'm not sure what your reference to the barn life was about exactly, or you issue with that. I'm pretty sure they aren't putting a cow patti into the polio vaccine (but I've been wrong before),.

LeKiwi wrote:
8 - Note above: we aren't just talking about autism when we say they pose major dangers - there are countless other ways in which vaccines can cause harm.


Err... Yeah.

But, I thought that the topic was about the link about autism specifically. I could be wrong. I can be a little slow.

Also, I would put forth-'theoretical major dangers.', (as an alternative).

But then again, so is Polio. Pick your poison. I'd rather take my chances with the formaldehyde.

This reminds me of something I'm dealing with right now.
Apparently, I had a killer kidney infection and didn't know it, (until I started peeing blood. Yeah. Yeah. I know. TMI). Anywaaayyy...

So, they give me these really ugly antibiotics (cause I can't take penicillin), and a nifty little packet with a list of side effects and a little excerpt that said "Remember that your doctor has prescribed this medication because he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people who use this medication do not have serious side effects." Nice.

I don't if they have to put this on everything now, and I just now saw it, or what. Still, makes ya' think. Either way, these meds suck. I'm puking. I'm dizzy. My head hurts. But... Dizzy vs. a hospital stay due to blood poisoning. Puking vs. dialysis. Hmmm.... Boy, tough choice there. :roll:

LeKiwi wrote:
9 - People very rarely die from flu; if they do they're usually either very sick already, or the very young or very elderly with compromised immune systems.


True. I have a compromised immune system, and I'm an asthmatic. I still don't get that flippin' shot. I get the flu every year that I do. Go figure. I'm with you on this one. They play a probability guessing game as to type every year, and usually get it wrong.

LeKiwi wrote:
11 - I suggest you do a bit of elementary-level reading on pregnancy before you say mercury in small doses won't harm a baby. Because facts are it will. A pregnant woman needs to eat an extremely restricted diet due to the effects minute exposure to various chemicals can cause to a baby. Her babies blood is, for 9 months, her own blood too. What she eats and drinks and takes in goes straight into the bloodstream of her child. Giving vaccines whilst pregnant is extremely dangerous, given the fact that the child will likely not yet have an immune system to speak of and the brain is still developing. In reality, it takes till the age of 9 for a person to gain full immunity, and babies brains still develop for months after birth; the reason they're born when they are is simply that they get too big for the mother to continue carrying and safely give birth to.


Counter research is out there.

LeKiwi wrote:
13 - Don't call me hun.


She has a point.

LeKiwi wrote:

14 - What's the point in giving a baby the Hep B vaccine when the chances of a child coming into contact with it are next to none, unless they live with druggies, and it will have worn off by the time they're older and the risk factors for them coming into contact with it will increase?


Okay. I'll buy that.

LeKiwi wrote:
Again, stick to what you know. There's so much wrong with what you just wrote that it's laughable; you've clearly not done any research at all, from pro OR anti vaccine sources!!


Pot. Kettle. Black.

Save that I think you have done research. Albeit mostly from biased sources. I think you have an personal agenda here. I thought journalists were taught objectivity.

You don't know enough about the science involved to make unbiased, informed decisions about what you are reading. I have just glimpsed the education necessary to understand it and ran away screaming.

The base is broad. The mountain is high. You (probably),or I (definitely) are not any where near there.


_________________
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself.
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

-Walt Whitman


Rebecca_L
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2008
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 386

06 Oct 2008, 6:26 pm

Philosopher,
First of all, women are advised to limit their fish intake while pregnant because of mercury issues. (Only specific fish, not all have mercury concentrations.) Secondly, not only is a baby affected by any substance his/her mother receives, but it is commonly believed (although I don't know if it's true) that the substances go directly to the baby first and through the mother's body second. I know when my son was born they gave me a shot of morphine and they had to give my son a shot of something to counteract it. He was born very quickly after I was given the morphine because it sped up my labor rather than slowing it down like they expected and he was therefor born with a high amount of morphine in his system. His system was so sedated that he would not have been able to breathe without the counteracting shot. It takes time for any substance that goes to the baby to filter out. LeKiwi is quite correct also, that the babies brains are still forming and extremely sensitive to toxins. Finally, you do not see a difference between the intake of a substance through the stomach, where it must filter into the bloodstream slowly through several barriers and a substance injected directly into the bloodstream?

Oh, and as to why aren't babies thrown into autism at birth, how do we know they aren't? Aidan has, as far as we can tell, been autistic from birth. Maybe he was born autistic, maybe he suffered vaccine damage at birth or when his mother got the flu shot while pregnant with him. Maybe he was simply formed that way in the womb. I seriously doubt we will ever know but I certainly keep all possibilities in mind. Unlike you, I have not closed the book on what might cause autism. Given the variety of symptoms that are shown in those with autism, I have to say that I suspect that there are many triggers and it will be a long time before we track them down. I do believe that it IS possible (I don't think it's likely, simply possible) that autism actually is a not-so-random mutation that children are born with. I am more inclined to believe it's a genetic predisposition that children are born with and that the sooner we track down some triggers the sooner we will see the autism tide start to ebb instead of growing.

The GFCF diet cannot, in my opinion, be any sort of a "cure" for autism. However, it is certainly reasonable to eliminate the possibility that a sensitivity to Gluten or Casein might be exacerbating his condition. While it requires a financial and time commitment from me, it is a small price to pay if it does some good for him. If it does not, it hasn't harmed him in the slightest. Also, I must take exception to the contention that it "increases stress" on the child and therefore to be avoided. Vaccinations increase stress enormously, often for days or weeks afterwards, does this not mean we should avoid them too? Once again, I see a double standard. Vaccines are okay, not because they're necessarily safe, but because the medical establishment says they are and they are necessary. The GFCF diet is not okay, not because it is dangerous, but because the medical establishment has said that there is no "cure" for autism and that the diet is "unproven". In other words, it's an opinion on your part. Now, if someone was trying to pressure you to go on an extreme diet, like the GFCF, and you didn't want to do it, I could understand your dismay. However, since you don't know my grandson or the circumstances of his autism, you really have no ground to claim that the diet would be stressful OR that the diet would not help him. I don't know if it WILL help him, but I think it is clearly worth a try. Fortunately, Aidan is far more open to new foods than many children. He's still picky, but not nearly as picky as many I've read about.

Yes, I know quite well what shingles are and how they affect people. My daughter had shingles when she was 7, my grandmother has had shingles as an adult. Yes, they are painful. Yes we have plenty of pallative treatments for them which work quite well. No, the chickenpox vaccine does not guarantee that you will never get the chickenpox. (No vaccine works for everyone. I got the measles in spite of being fully immunized.) And shingles are valuable sometimes in alerting medical personal to an underlying condition. Since they usually occur when the immune system is compromised they can warn of conditions before they might otherwise be noticed. (No cloud is without a silver lining.)

In short, people who decide that GFCF is "bunk" and that children should never be given biomedical treatments because it would "change who they are" are doing a disservice to everyone. First of all, if biomedical intervention (by which I mean diet, nutritional suppliments, and chelation if indicated) can affect a measurable change in autistic symptoms, then WHY shouldn't they be implemented? That's like saying using antiobiotics would deny the infection its "right" to be there. Since many of the symptoms of autism are painful, allieviating them is of utmost importance to the caring human being. In my grandson's case, anything that makes it easier for him to communicate, both by understanding and by communicating back, and allows him to perceive the world more clearly is to be pursued. I don't for a moment believe that reducing the "static" that many people with autism complain of will "change who he is". He will still be our wonderful young man, he'll just be able to share who he is better.