WARNING PALIN DIASTER WARING PALIN DIASTER

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UncleBeer
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14 Oct 2008, 4:16 pm

pheonixiis wrote:
I didn't care about the source for the pic. I just didn't get it except as a dig for a mispelling

I got a chuckle out of your misspelling "misspelling". :lol:

pheonixiis wrote:
Why do you think that Tony R. has Mob connections? Are you thinking Italian Mafia? "Mobster" is an vague and inflammatory term. Proof? High dollar embezzlement and the first name Tony does not a Mobster make.

Ah...so Tony's 16 felony convictions (six counts of wire fraud, six counts of mail fraud, two counts of corrupt solicitation, and two counts of money laundering) don't bother you so much, nor his sinister connections with your candidate for president. You're worried what tag I choose to call him by. :roll:

Obama & mobsters: Here's one for you:

Quote:
A man who has long been dogged by charges that the bank his family owns helped finance a Chicago crime figure will host a Windy City fund-raiser tonight for Sen. Barack Obama.

Alexi Giannoulias, who became Illinois state treasurer last year after Obama vouched for him, has pledged to raise $100,000 for the senator's Oval Office bid.

Before he promised to raise funds for Obama, Giannoulias bankrolled Michael "Jaws" Giorango, a Chicagoan twice convicted of bookmaking and promoting prostitution.

Giannoulias is so tainted by reputed mob links that several top Illinois Dems, including the state's speaker of the House and party chairman, refused to endorse him even after he won the Democratic nomination with Obama's help.

Giannoulias was the bank's vice president and chief loan officer for most of the more than $15 million in loans.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09052007/ne ... dekick.htm

By the way, Giannoulias has a very good chance of taking Obama's Senate seat should he win the White House. 8O



pheonixiis
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14 Oct 2008, 4:35 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
pheonixiis wrote:
I didn't care about the source for the pic. I just didn't get it except as a dig for a mispelling

I got a chuckle out of your misspelling "misspelling". :lol:


Yes. I'm sure you did. Please note. "Cheap shot". I'm sure you never make spelling or grammatic mistakes in your various vitriolic rushes. :roll:



UncleBeer wrote:
Ah...so Tony's 16 felony convictions (six counts of wire fraud, six counts of mail fraud, two counts of corrupt solicitation, and two counts of money laundering) don't bother you so much, nor his sinister connections with your candidate for president. You're worried what tag I choose to call him by. :roll:


Well... As to that. I suppose they do. Any candidate is going to have dubious connections. But I took exception to the 'tag' because in the initial context with which you presented the word "mobster" you were trying to present more 'tags' for Obama.

UncleBeer wrote:
Obama & mobsters: Here's one for you:

Quote:
A man who has long been dogged by charges that the bank his family owns helped finance a Chicago crime figure will host a Windy City fund-raiser tonight for Sen. Barack Obama.

Alexi Giannoulias, who became Illinois state treasurer last year after Obama vouched for him, has pledged to raise $100,000 for the senator's Oval Office bid.

Before he promised to raise funds for Obama, Giannoulias bankrolled Michael "Jaws" Giorango, a Chicagoan twice convicted of bookmaking and promoting prostitution.

Giannoulias is so tainted by reputed mob links that several top Illinois Dems, including the state's speaker of the House and party chairman, refused to endorse him even after he won the Democratic nomination with Obama's help.

Giannoulias was the bank's vice president and chief loan officer for most of the more than $15 million in loans.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09052007/ne ... dekick.htm

By the way, Giannoulias has a very good chance of taking Obama's Senate seat should he win the White House. 8O


I'll uh... Look into that. Is your only source the New York Post? Or are you going to give the rest like I asked?


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UncleBeer
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14 Oct 2008, 5:09 pm

pheonixiis wrote:
Is your only source the New York Post? Or are you going to give the rest like I asked?

Here ya go: 27,700 hits. You're welcome. http://www.google.nl/search?q=Giannouli ... =firefox-a

UncleBeer deigns to help those unfamiliar with Mr. Google. :lol:



monty
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14 Oct 2008, 5:21 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
Ah...so Tony's 16 felony convictions (six counts of wire fraud, six counts of mail fraud, two counts of corrupt solicitation, and two counts of money laundering) don't bother you so much, nor his sinister connections with your candidate for president. You're worried what tag I choose to call him by. :roll:


Should it bother us? He was convicted, is doing the time. His 'sinister' connections to Obama are inferred - you have to believe it to see it. Rezko was part of a multimillion dollar fundraising effort for President Bush - should the Senate rush to impeach Bush over that?



UncleBeer
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14 Oct 2008, 5:28 pm

monty wrote:
UncleBeer wrote:
Ah...so Tony's 16 felony convictions (six counts of wire fraud, six counts of mail fraud, two counts of corrupt solicitation, and two counts of money laundering) don't bother you so much, nor his sinister connections with your candidate for president. You're worried what tag I choose to call him by. :roll:

Should it bother us? He was convicted, is doing the time. His 'sinister' connections to Obama are inferred

Hardly. In fact, Rezko is reportedly singing to the Feds now even as we speak. We'll see what it yields.

Further along these same lines:

Quote:
Boiling down a complex blog entry by P.U.M.A. pundit, Tony Rezko used Alexi Giannoulias bank to float $450,000 in bad checks, while campaigning for Alexi’s brother Demetris to be placed on the Illinois Finance Authority Board.

Demetris Giannoulias was on the Board at the Crossroads Fund, a Chicago Based left wing organzation supported by Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn and Barack Obama, which made grants to such stellar organizations as ACORN and other affordable housing swindlers.
http://www.cdobs.com/archive/our-column ... ma%2C1866/

In 2002, Rezko borrowed $10.5 Million from Broadway Bank, the Giannoulias family bank, the same bank where Barack Obama kept his Senate campaign funds. In 2006, Sen. Obama endorsed Alexi Giannoulias for Illinois State Treasurer, and gives Sec. Giannoulias a slot to speak at the Democratic National Convention.

Glad to see all these upstanding folks able to work so well together, too bad that Rezko doesn’t want to serve time, and holds quite a bit of information about the Chicago Political Establishment that may be interesting to the Feds.


Welcome to the fetid swamp of Chicago politics.



monty
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14 Oct 2008, 5:47 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
Hardly. In fact, Rezko is reportedly singing to the Feds now even as we speak. We'll see what it yields.


Inference and innuendo.

I might be worried if my name were Blagojevich, but my sources indicate that Rezko has no testimony of illegal activity by Obama. Nice for you that you can suggest that someone is going to reveal a massive criminal conspiracy when there is no evidence, no proof - but I guess that is how smears work. Unlike the legislative investigation that found that Palin actually did violate Alaska's ethics laws.



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15 Oct 2008, 1:30 am

monty wrote:
... someone is going to reveal a massive criminal conspiracy when there is no evidence, no proof - but I guess that is how smears work.

Heh. Not unlike the "McCain might have had a tryst 8 years ago with a Washington lobbyist, but we have absolutely no proof whatsoever" frontpage story the NYTimes ran back in March. This, while turning a blind eye to Edwards' broad-daylight dalliance. One can only laugh at what passes for journalism these days.

monty wrote:
Unlike the legislative investigation that found that Palin actually did violate Alaska's ethics laws.

Let's review: An investigator (Branchflower) who is friends and colleagues with both the accuser (Monegan) and Democratic State Senator and overseer of the investigation Hollis French (who promised an "October Surprise" even before the investigation began, yet refused to recuse himself).

Quote:
Branchfire has piled a guess (that the Palins wanted Wooten fired, rather than, for example, counseled, disciplined, or reassigned) on top of an inference (that when the Palins expressed concern to Monegan about Wooten, they were really threatening to fire Monegan if he didn’t fire Wooten) on top of an innuendo (that Gov. Palin “fired” Monegan at least in part because of his failure to fire Wooten) — from which Branchflower then leaps to a legal conclusion: “abuse of authority.” Branchflower reads the Ethics Act to prohibit any governmental action or decision made for justifiable reasons benefiting the State if that action or decision might also make a public official happy for any other reason. That would mean, of course, that governors must never act or decide in a way that makes them personally happy as a citizen, or as a wife or mother or daughter, and that they could only take actions or make decisions which left them feeling neutral or upset. This an incredibly shoddy tower of supposition, and a ridiculous misreading of the law.

Branchflower puts under a microscope every direct and indirect contact that can possibly be claimed to to come, directly or indirectly, from Gov. Palin or her husband, Todd. In none of them did either Sarah or Todd Palin demand or request that Wooten be fired. Some of them date back to before Gov. Palin was even a candidate for governor. All of them are equally well explained by legitimate concerns that Wooten was a potential threat to the Palin family (having already made death threats against Gov. Palin’s father) and/or an embarrassment to the Alaska Department of Public Safety and the entire state law enforcement community. That the Palins also had strong — and entirely understandable! — negative feelings about Trooper Wooten does not make any of these communications remotely improper, much less illegal.

Nevertheless, Branchflower leaps to the personal conclusion (page 67 of the .pdf file) that “such claims of fear were not bona fide and were offered to provide cover for the Palins’ real motivation: to get Trooper Wooten fired for personal family related reasons.” Well, here’s another memo to Mr. Branchflower: When the family is question is the family of the Governor of Alaska, and when her security detail is charged with protecting her from threats, and in the process of that, the security detail actively seeks out information as to who may have previously made death threats against the family, that’s no longer solely a “personal family related reason.” And when someone like Trooper Wooten threatens to bring ridicule and shame to the entire state of Alaska, that’s no longer solely a “personal family related reason” either.
http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2008/10/11/who-is-steve-branchflower/

This all, despite Monegan's declaration:

Quote:
"For the record, no one ever said fire Wooten. Not the governor. Not Todd. Not any of the other staff," Monegan said Friday from Portland. "What they said directly was more along the lines of 'This isn't a person that we would want to be representing our state troopers.'"

The 'report' is nothing short of a bald-faced politically-motivated hatchet job.



monty
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15 Oct 2008, 10:12 am

UncleBeer wrote:
monty wrote:
... someone is going to reveal a massive criminal conspiracy when there is no evidence, no proof - but I guess that is how smears work.

Heh. Not unlike the "McCain might have had a tryst 8 years ago with a Washington lobbyist, but we have absolutely no proof whatsoever" frontpage story the NYTimes ran back in March. This, while turning a blind eye to Edwards' broad-daylight dalliance. One can only laugh at what passes for journalism these days.


They ran the story, people said 'eh?' and that was pretty much the end of it, as I recall. When the National Enquirer hired investigators and photographers to trail Edwards and actually have hard evidence, then that story went from 'Eh?' to 'Oh!' ... that's the way journalism works - poorly corroborated stories don't get traction, while well researched ones can.

UncleBeer wrote:
monty wrote:
Unlike the legislative investigation that found that Palin actually did violate Alaska's ethics laws.

Let's review: An investigator (Branchflower) who is friends and colleagues with both the accuser (Monegan) ... yada yada.


Let's be honest - the Republican controlled Alaska legislature had a bi-partisan committee to investigate, and that committee appointed an investigator. Palin said she would cooperate, and then tried dragging her feet and blocking the investigation. The report says in black and white that she violated ethics laws, and she claims that the report cleared her entirely! And now that people are reading the report, McCain and Palin are crying politics.

Here's what the Anchorage Daily News says about it:

Quote:
Sarah Palin's reaction to the Legislature's Troopergate report is an embarrassment to Alaskans and the nation.


She claims the report "vindicates" her. She said that the investigation found "no unlawful or unethical activity on my part."

Her response is either astoundingly ignorant or downright Orwellian.

Page 8, Finding Number One of the report says: "I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act."

In plain English, she did something "unlawful." She broke the state ethics law.



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15 Oct 2008, 3:15 pm

monty wrote:
They ran the story, people said 'eh?' and that was pretty much the end of it, as I recall.

Unfortunately, many liberal sycophants took it seriously for no other reason than because it was in the NYTimes.
monty wrote:
When the National Enquirer hired investigators and photographers to trail Edwards and actually have hard evidence, then that story went from 'Eh?' to 'Oh!'

This particular story was the worst kept secret... EVER. All news outlets were aware of it; only one was brave / willing / foolish enough to break it. The rest followed when there was no longer a choice. More direct evidence of journalistic malfeasance. Feh.

monty wrote:
UncleBeer wrote:
monty wrote:
Unlike the legislative investigation that found that Palin actually did violate Alaska's ethics laws.

Let's review: An investigator (Branchflower) who is friends and colleagues with both the accuser (Monegan) [...important quote snip; replaced with "yada yada"]

Let's be honest - the Republican controlled Alaska legislature had a bi-partisan committee to investigate, and that committee appointed an investigator. Palin said she would cooperate, and then tried dragging her feet and blocking the investigation. The report says in black and white that she violated ethics laws, and she claims that the report cleared her entirely! And now that people are reading the report, McCain and Palin are crying politics.

Here's what the Anchorage Daily News says about it:

Quote:
Sarah Palin's reaction to the Legislature's Troopergate report is an embarrassment to Alaskans and the nation.

She claims the report "vindicates" her. She said that the investigation found "no unlawful or unethical activity on my part."

Her response is either astoundingly ignorant or downright Orwellian.

Page 8, Finding Number One of the report says: "I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act."

In plain English, she did something "unlawful." She broke the state ethics law.

Gosh monty; it seems you didn't take the time to read what I'd just written. Briefly, it said the state investigator skipped several logical steps before coming to a prejudicial conclusion. Should I provide a link so you can catch up? :D



monty
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15 Oct 2008, 3:57 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
Gosh monty; it seems you didn't take the time to read what I'd just written. Briefly, it said the state investigator skipped several logical steps before coming to a prejudicial conclusion. Should I provide a link so you can catch up? :D


No, I did read it - I just don't agree.

The fact that no one came right and said 'fire him' doesn't mean that there wasn't a clear pattern of inappropriate conduct. It was clear that the Governor, her staff and her husband were putting pressure on anyone involved in the process. There are laws and regulations for dealing with personnel matters, and there were repeated attempts by Palin to jump over the normal course of action.

If Palin simply disagrees with the report or rejects it as a political hatchet job, why did she claim it clears her and proves that she has broken no laws and done no wrong?? Anyone who compares her statement on the report to the report itself will conclude either that she is loony or is lying. Why didn't she provide sworn testimony outlining what she did and didn't do? Why did the Alaska Attorney Generals office not cooperate with subpoenas? Why did Palin maintain a Yahoo email account for conducting some of her official business? Why did Palin want to prosecute Wooten for Moose poaching even though her own father was a party to the crime, and then she pulled back the complaint when the investigator for that said that they couldn't just investigate wooten, they would have to investigate everyone in the party?

At the end of the day, I think it is clear that she used her office for a personal vendetta.



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15 Oct 2008, 4:02 pm

If these things were so important then how come Obama is ahead in the polls 14 points? The fact is Americans are tired of the attacks they want to hear talk about stuff that concerns them and as of right now the American people think that Obama is addressing their issues, I don't know if you have heard or not but a 106 year old nun named Cecelia Gaudette has stated that she is going to vote for Obama, the last president she voted for was Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower. I think someone who has lived through 18 different presidents would really know the best candidates from the less than best candidates.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=6037036

Also I suggest you take a look at this poll.

http://abcnews.go.com/politics/PollTrac ... id=5611512


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16 Oct 2008, 2:31 am

monty wrote:
At the end of the day, I think it is clear that she used her office for a personal vendetta.

Let's see: a public servant under Palin's purview uses a taser on an 11 year old, drinks on the job, and makes a death threat against the Governor's family, yet escapes any serious repercussions. Despite the fact that Monegan himself admits the Palins did nothing wrong, I for one salute any effort she may have made to get an obviously dangerous employee off the State's payroll.

Obviously you don't agree. For you, this is a serious topic while Ayers / Wright / Rezko / ACORN are merely 'distractions'. :lol:



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16 Oct 2008, 9:52 am

See the problem is with these nitpicky issues that really have nothing to do with the presidency is that the McCain camp has the exact same problems, so they basically get cancelled out.

Ayers? Well Palin has the Alaska Independence Party, which is a lot closer to being a traitor to the country IMO.

ACORN? You still haven't addressed McCain at an ACORN event in 2006.

Wright? Palin's religious leader is an evangelical nut who likes to accuse old women of being witches.

Rezko? He's just a guy who likes to give huge sums of money to the democratic party. If he has a shady past, so what? The democrats are supposed to refuse donations from anyone who has ever had a misdemeanor or felony? Does the republican party refuse donations from people with misdemeanors or felonies? I don't think so. I'm sure if you try you can find many felons who have donated money to McCain, but since it doesn't make a lick of difference I wouldn't bother if I were you.



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16 Oct 2008, 10:12 am

If X is elected, beer will be illegal.

If Y is elected, they will pry your gun from your cold dead fingers.


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16 Oct 2008, 10:46 am

UncleBeer wrote:
Obviously you don't agree. For you, this is a serious topic while Ayers / Wright / Rezko / ACORN are merely 'distractions'. :lol:


Ah. Yes. Minimize the relevancy of the argument that you have lost. Nice.

Lets see... Add that to tacitly, and occasionally, obtusely insult the intelligence of the people debating with you in order to try and discredit them' and I guess that makes you a master debater. :roll:

(For the record, I don't consider a needle in the haystack google search to be citing your sources. )

Any politician is going to have skeletons in their respective closets; the 'usual' shady business associates, and special interest groups. Now, I wasn't going to bring this crud up, but since we are mud-slinging at politicians who could care less what we,- The Great Unwashed- think, what the heck.

For example:

James Hensley (A.K.A John McCains father-in-law) has a long an convoluted history of consorting with embezzler's, engaging in gambling rackets, and maintaining his own mafia connections.

-Kemper Marley
-Peter Licavoli (-who is a mobster with now doubt.)
-Bugsy Siegel (- again^)
-Gus Greenbaum

On another note:
-Charles H. Keating Junior

Now. Granted McCain escaped his association with Keating (a $359,000.00 association) and the Savings and Loan Scandal with only a rebuke for "poor judgement" by a Senate Ethics Committee, which frankly just tells me that he is only a certain higher caliber of criminal, but certainly not any less of one.

They are all crooks. McCain is just a little smarter about it. His father-in-law is associated with high dollar scum-bags that should scare the ever-living-p*** outta you, since you are apparently worried about that sort of thing.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about James Hensley and his mafia connections. Like I said, They Are All Crooks. Pick your poison.

So far I have seen you offer spurious speculation such as "mobster" connections (based on what? The the first name Tony?)

Repeated attempts to discredit those arguing with you by focusing on spelling minutia and slinging insults.

Not to mention (again), a blatant minimization of facts when you lose an argument.

I thought your whole underlying point was to call attention to lack of ethics? If only criminal businessmen, fringe groups, and shady lobbyists count, you're still supporting the wrong guy.

You've given me a few things to look into and think about, but for the most part, I'm not going to waste any more of my (or your) time.


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pheonixiis
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16 Oct 2008, 10:50 am

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
If X is elected, beer will be illegal.

If Y is elected, they will pry your gun from your cold dead fingers.


Precisely. :D :wink:


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