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greenblue
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08 Feb 2009, 1:15 pm

Dussel wrote:
Exit_stage_left wrote:
BellaDonna wrote:
An atheist is like looking at a flower and saying it doesn't really exist because I don't beleive because I'm an atheist and so there.


If you can show me evidence for the existence of the "flower" then I will believe in it.


I think you start at the wrong end:

The first question must be: "What is that, what we describe as a 'flower'?" (or anything else, a metal, water, etc. pp.)

Our mind has a concept of "flower" as the combination of certain attributes, which in synthesis brings us to the conclusion, that, because all of this attributes are present, that the object, which causes sensual phenomena, has to be of the kind of objects, we call flower.

So the statement "This is a flower." is less a statement about the object itself, but about the categories we order and synthesise or model of reality in reaction the sensations we receive. Nevertheless: It is still a reaction to sensual experiences.

The idea of the existence of a god is not a reaction to sensual experiences and is therefore of an other quality than the idea of the existence of flowers. Therefore your question misses the point.

well, God can be a reaction to psychological experience, and the flower itself can be a reaction triggered by psychological experiences as well.

And yes, the existence of the flower works better because it is something that can be physically proven, unlike an entity as an immaterial god, however, the issue dispite its existence being proven is if the flower has god-like properties or is a god entity and if we should worship it, the issue will no longer be about proving its physical existence, because it is there.


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Last edited by greenblue on 08 Feb 2009, 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

greenblue
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08 Feb 2009, 1:18 pm

z0rp wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
What if God reveals Himself to you all the time but you simply don't notice?
Who says God has to manifest as something fantastic or miraculous or supernatural?

I ask the same to you but regarding unicorns.

Visible pink unicorns are supernatural manifestations of Satan.


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TallyMan
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08 Feb 2009, 1:29 pm

greenblue wrote:
Visible pink unicorns are supernatural manifestations of Satan.


Or a manifestation of: "I wish I hadn't had that last drink".


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greenblue
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08 Feb 2009, 1:35 pm

TallyMan wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Visible pink unicorns are supernatural manifestations of Satan.


Or a manifestation of: "I wish I hadn't had that last drink".

or created by you, I believe you can create a unicorn, the basic things you need for it do exist (e.g. horses) and the rest is up to you, then you can actually claim its existence. But that wouldn't be supernatural though.

By the way, always remember, the spoon doesn't actually exist :P


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slowmutant
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09 Feb 2009, 8:19 am

greenblue wrote:
z0rp wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
What if God reveals Himself to you all the time but you simply don't notice?
Who says God has to manifest as something fantastic or miraculous or supernatural?

I ask the same to you but regarding unicorns.

Visible pink unicorns are supernatural manifestations of Satan.


Or LSD.



ruveyn
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09 Feb 2009, 7:43 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Or LSD.


A manifestation of LSD is quite natural.

ruveyn



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10 Feb 2009, 12:25 am

ruveyn wrote:
slowmutant wrote:

Or LSD.


A manifestation of LSD is quite natural.

ruveyn


How is LSD natural?



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10 Feb 2009, 8:40 am

slowmutant wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
slowmutant wrote:

Or LSD.


A manifestation of LSD is quite natural.

ruveyn


How is LSD natural?


It is a chemical substance first derived from plants and which can be chemically synthesized. Further more it consists of molecules which is as natural as natural can be. It is as natural as alcohol Anything physical is natural. People who become psycho from LSD are not inhabited by a Demon From Hell. They have foolishly scrambled their neural apparatus.

ruveyn



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10 Feb 2009, 8:44 am

ruveyn wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
slowmutant wrote:

Or LSD.


A manifestation of LSD is quite natural.

ruveyn


How is LSD natural?


It is a chemical substance first derived from plants and which can be chemically synthesized. Further more it consists of molecules which is as natural as natural can be. It is as natural as alcohol Anything physical is natural. People who become psycho from LSD are not inhabited by a Demon From Hell. They have foolishly scrambled their neural apparatus.

ruveyn


LSD is not natural to the body. It is not produced by the body. Ask your doctor.



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10 Feb 2009, 9:25 am

slowmutant wrote:

LSD is not natural to the body. It is not produced by the body. Ask your doctor.


Neither is aspirin or penicillin. Humans do not produce beef flesh natural but they consume it. We don't produce cellulose naturally but we consume it. We don't produce chlorophyl naturally, but we consume it. We don't produce zinc or iron naturally, but we consume it. We don't produce salt naturally but we consume it.

ruveyn



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10 Feb 2009, 9:38 am

ruveyn wrote:
slowmutant wrote:

LSD is not natural to the body. It is not produced by the body. Ask your doctor.


Neither is aspirin or penicillin. Humans do not produce beef flesh natural but they consume it. We don't produce cellulose naturally but we consume it. We don't produce chlorophyl naturally, but we consume it. We don't produce zinc or iron naturally, but we consume it. We don't produce salt naturally but we consume it.

ruveyn


What's your point?



greenblue
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11 Feb 2009, 2:29 am

slowmutant wrote:
How is LSD natural?

Because if LSD isn't natural, it would be supernatural.


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11 Feb 2009, 7:15 am

greenblue wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
How is LSD natural?

Because if LSD isn't natural, it would be supernatural.


Touche :roll:



b9
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11 Feb 2009, 7:54 am

only god knows that i am an atheist.



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11 Feb 2009, 8:09 am

b9 wrote:
only god knows that i am an atheist.


You just told all of us.



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11 Feb 2009, 9:02 am

slowmutant wrote:
b9 wrote:
only god knows that i am an atheist.


You just told all of us.


but only he knows if i am telling the truth