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AlexandertheSolitary
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25 Nov 2008, 7:33 am

twoshots wrote:
Sand wrote:
The twin phenomenon has been cited by many, Carl Sagan amongst them, as an indication that travel approaching the speed of light thrusts one into the future. Matched atomic clocks have confirmed the phenomenon as real. This is not my theory, it is part of Einstein's. Are you trying to prove that the phenomenon does not exist? What's your point? I am not trying to deflate mathematics, merely indicate that the tests have confirmed the theory.

Let's make it simpler. If we have two inertial reference frames moving relative to one another at near c then each will measure the other's time as dilated because there is no preferred reference frame. "Traveling into the future more quickly" doesn't make sense because conventional notions of simultaneity break down.


Brilliant! I shall encorporate your advice into my formulae.


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AlexandertheSolitary
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25 Nov 2008, 7:38 am

ReGiFroFoLa wrote:
AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
I have been developing a theory for the first stage of time travel.


Time is only illusion. We can shape it according to our will.


Then I challenge you to restore the Achaemenid Persian Empire, the Byzantine Empire, Tang Dynasty China, Moorish Spain and the Carolingian Empire by the power of thought alone, have them coexist in a parallel universe in which Atlantis was not submerged, then summon me there!


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ReGiFroFoLa
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25 Nov 2008, 11:54 am

[/quote]Then I challenge you to restore the Achaemenid Persian Empire, the Byzantine Empire, Tang Dynasty China, Moorish Spain and the Carolingian Empire by the power of thought alone, have them coexist in a parallel universe in which Atlantis was not submerged, then summon me there[quote]


I reckon none of them are woth restoring :geek: Ask me for something different :D



Eggman
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25 Nov 2008, 4:45 pm

WHat if
1 Time travel in theory is possible
2. a time machine can be made
3. humans went extcint before its use as such that is why we have no time travles from the future.

the assumptions that its impposible becase we woul have time travlesrs from the futures is based on everlasting humanity



AlexandertheSolitary
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26 Nov 2008, 9:09 am

ReGiFroFoLa wrote:
Then I challenge you to restore the Achaemenid Persian Empire, the Byzantine Empire, Tang Dynasty China, Moorish Spain and the Carolingian Empire by the power of thought alone, have them coexist in a parallel universe in which Atlantis was not submerged, then summon me there
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I reckon none of them are woth restoring :geek: Ask me for something different :D


You honestly think their current-day equivalents are worth preserving? Perhaps you are right. I shall spare them for now.

Go back to the beginning of the Universe (taking precautions to protect yourself, naturally) and forward to the End of the Universe, and bring something back from each. Please.


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AlexandertheSolitary
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26 Nov 2008, 9:10 am

Eggman wrote:
WHat if
1 Time travel in theory is possible
2. a time machine can be made
3. humans went extcint before its use as such that is why we have no time travles from the future.

the assumptions that its impposible becase we woul have time travlesrs from the futures is based on everlasting humanity


True. Also, maybe the Time Lords of Gallifrey have already invented it.


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26 Nov 2008, 11:12 am

Sand wrote:
Considering your capability to understand the problem, since I provided the reference , I cannot accept you as "people". The Einstein twin paradox clearly indicates that someone traveling at high velocity (or any velocity at all for minute movements) arrives back at the starting point at a different time than he would have if he had not traveled. I didn't fabricate that. It's in the reference and it's been tested and proved valid. It's not my business or interest to convince you, merely to point the way to convince yourself. And I am surely not emotionally involved in whether you do so or not. You are, at this point in my life, merely a few lines in a web site and certainly nothing to get excited about.


wow, for someone who claims to be eighty, you sure are rude and condescending, Mr 'I can't see you therefore you can't exist and your opinions are not valid'. Whether you are 'right' or not is not something that interests me. What bothers me is that your petty argument is not to provide your own opinions and back them up, but jsut to blindly point at wikipedia and say 'look at that'. That's not an argument. Any theory caqn be disapproved or argued against, Otherwise why would Mystyc and Twoshot be arguing with you? They've both put forth proper arguments while you've thrown a hissy fit, shouting 'I'm right and I know I am!'.

Sand wrote:
Considering your capability to understand the problem, since I provided the reference, I cannot accept you as "people".
Oh, I see, I don't like your argument so I'm going to call you illelevent. Again, all you have done is pointed at a theory that someone has already argued against, a physics grad student of all people, and say THIS R TEH TROOF!
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The Einstein twin paradox clearly indicates that someone traveling at high velocity (or any velocity at all for minute movements) arrives back at the starting point at a different time than he would have if he had not traveled.


I'm not going to argue this point, because I'm not going to pretend to know anything about physics, but I do know that you insulted someone who actually showed their working out. It's your attitude I'm attacking, not your facts.
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I didn't fabricate that. It's in the reference and it's been tested and proved valid.


Evidence please.

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It's not my business or interest to convince you, merely to point the way to convince yourself.


point the way to convince myself? this seems to me like A) another, badly phrased way of saying that you actually are trying to convince me, and B) You think you are the absolute voice of truth and reason on this matter.


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And I am surely not emotionally involved in whether you do so or not.


Oh i think you are, otherwise you'd drop the matter altogether. This sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that I'm not getting to you.

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You are, at this point in my life, merely a few lines in a web site and certainly nothing to get excited about.


Again with the 'I deny your existence as a thinking being so you can't hurt me!' argument. Absolutely childish. You have proved you have any knowledge of either art or physics beyond that of anyone with access to wikipedia, but you won't prove me wrong because you're a coward.



Sand
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26 Nov 2008, 11:25 am

Boy! Are you pissed! Very amusing, but just look up the physics as I suggested. I really don't care what you think of me. But I have tried to point you in the right direction and you bite my index finger. No gratitude at all. Down doggie!



Sand
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26 Nov 2008, 11:25 am

Boy! Are you pissed! Very amusing, but just look up the physics as I suggested. I really don't care what you think of me. But I have tried to point you in the right direction and you bite my index finger. No gratitude at all. Down doggie!



AlexandertheSolitary
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26 Nov 2008, 11:54 am

Sand wrote:
Boy! Are you pissed! Very amusing, but just look up the physics as I suggested. I really don't care what you think of me. But I have tried to point you in the right direction and you bite my index finger. No gratitude at all. Down doggie!


(A) Einstein was not infallible (he acknowledged he was wrong to earlier deny an expanding Universe)

(B) A superior knowledge of Physics or any other sphere of learning, does not entitle anyone to deny the humanity of others either for disagreeing or even for being wrong. Infallibility however, might put this humanity into question.


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AlexandertheSolitary
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26 Nov 2008, 11:58 am

Sand wrote:
Boy! Are you pissed! Very amusing, but just look up the physics as I suggested. I really don't care what you think of me. But I have tried to point you in the right direction and you bite my index finger. No gratitude at all. Down doggie!


Physicists, like theologians and philosophers, are like wizards from the Earthsea Trilogy.

"Infinite are the arguments of mages."

Besides, the argument was well thought out, not amusing. For your penance you shall give a coherent explanation of Dark Matter and Dark Energy.


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twoshots
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26 Nov 2008, 12:07 pm

AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
(A) Einstein was not infallible (he acknowledged he was wrong to earlier deny an expanding Universe)

The so called "twin paradox" is quite real, but we have not disputed that. It is the interpretation of it that has been questioned here.


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Sand
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26 Nov 2008, 12:10 pm

Since the physics of Einstein's twin paradox has been confirmed by experiment I really am not responsible for educating anybody on the matter. If you choose not to accept it it's not my problem. I am certainly not going to argue with either Einstein or the physicists that confirmed the truth of the theory.

Sorry about the duplicate post. That was unintentional.



Sand
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26 Nov 2008, 12:13 pm

twoshots wrote:
AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
(A) Einstein was not infallible (he acknowledged he was wrong to earlier deny an expanding Universe)

The so called "twin paradox" is quite real, but we have not disputed that. It is the interpretation of it that has been questioned here.


What interpretation is that?



AlexandertheSolitary
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26 Nov 2008, 12:15 pm

Sand wrote:
Since the physics of Einstein's twin paradox has been confirmed by experiment I really am not responsible for educating anybody on the matter. If you choose not to accept it it's not my problem. I am certainly not going to argue with either Einstein or the physicists that confirmed the truth of the theory.

Sorry about the duplicate post. That was unintentional.


Whoever said I rejected the twin paradox? You appear oblivious to the main criticisms in the post.


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Sand
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26 Nov 2008, 12:24 pm

OK. The twin paradox thing indicates that a twin sent out on a high speed trip returns to discover that his twin who remained behind is older than the twin that traveled. Now the only way that twin left behind can be older is that the whole Earth is also older for the twin that traveled which means that the returning twin returned to the future. How do you avoid that? That's all I said.