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ducasse
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25 Nov 2008, 5:31 am

Magnus wrote:
Our elements get recycled. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Our energy is infinite. We have free will to manipulate this infinite energy.
That is as close to a definition of the divine that I can say.

Our ego protects us from knowing about our past lives. Knowing it totally dismantles our view of reality. It's like a psychosis and your mind must be very strong to withstand all the torment. It's one way to have a spiritual awakening. I can understand why people are so reluctant to want to experience something like that. It's like being abducted by aliens or seeing ghosts, I'd imagine...


You keep suggesting that because energy can't be destroyed, consciousness can't be destroyed, but you won't give any reason why you think this is true - your assumption isn't in any way implied by the 2nd law of thermodynamics, do you really not see that?

If this is as close to a definition of the divine as you can get then I'm going to have to go ahead & assume that you are just randomly saying feel-good nonsense.



Accelerator
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25 Nov 2008, 7:59 am

ducasse wrote:
Magnus wrote:
Our elements get recycled. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Our energy is infinite. We have free will to manipulate this infinite energy.
That is as close to a definition of the divine that I can say.

Our ego protects us from knowing about our past lives. Knowing it totally dismantles our view of reality. It's like a psychosis and your mind must be very strong to withstand all the torment. It's one way to have a spiritual awakening. I can understand why people are so reluctant to want to experience something like that. It's like being abducted by aliens or seeing ghosts, I'd imagine...


You keep suggesting that because energy can't be destroyed, consciousness can't be destroyed, but you won't give any reason why you think this is true - your assumption isn't in any way implied by the 2nd law of thermodynamics, do you really not see that?
.


Are you saying the 2nd law of thermodynamics implies that energy is destroyed then..?

We already covered this yesterday..(sigh)

Infinite can also be used poetically.. to mean having no limits.

In all probability potential energy could well be infinite.. of course.. no one knows for sure.

I'm tired.. I don't really feel like arguing right now..

It's a hard life..:-(

-



ducasse
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25 Nov 2008, 8:08 am

I don't know how you read me as saying energy could be destroyed, I didn't say anything of the sort. I said the 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn't in any way imply that consciousness can't be destroyed. Give me a reason why I should credit your opinion that consciousness can survive death. Just because energy cannot be destroyed, but only changed from one state to another, does not mean particular properties of energy will be retained through the change from one state to another.



Accelerator
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25 Nov 2008, 8:37 am

ducasse wrote:
I don't know how you read me as saying energy could be destroyed, I didn't say anything of the sort. I said the 2nd law of thermodynamics doesn't in any way imply that consciousness can't be destroyed. Give me a reason why I should credit your opinion that consciousness can survive death. Just because energy cannot be destroyed, but only changed from one state to another, does not mean particular properties of energy will be retained through the change from one state to another.


ducasse wrote:
I don't know how you read me as saying energy could be destroyed,.


I didn’t.. your making an assumption..:-)

I actually asked a question.. because what you were saying wasn’t at all clear.

Magnus actually said.. “Energy cannot be created or destroyed.”..

You added “consciousness”.. didn’t you.. ?

But why.. ?

ducasse wrote:
You keep suggesting that because energy can't be destroyed, consciousness can't be destroyed,……. your assumption isn't in any way implied by the 2nd law of thermodynamics, do you really not see that?



Do you believe the 2nd law of thermodynamics and consciousness have something in common then.. ?

If so.. what is the connection.. ?

-

I try and get back to you later on the other points.

Right now I'm dying..:-(

-



Accelerator
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25 Nov 2008, 8:50 am

MR_BOGAN wrote:
Accelerator wrote:
I haven't seen.. or heard.. any evidence that you dream at night.

Can I conclude from that - with certainty - that you don't dream ?

Neither do I have any evidence of what your thoughts and feelings are..

Does my own lack of knowledge concerning your thoughts and feelings.. make it certain that you don't think or feel anything.. ?

I am struggling to follow your reasoning here.

How many things can we be certain about.. really.. ?


Nope.

Animals, people and you have feelings have dreams. You should be able to assume I do as well.


Are you saying that to be certain about things is not necessary then.. ?

That to assume things is eniough.. ?


MR_BOGAN wrote:
You can be certain about things that exist.


Do your thoughts. feelings.. memories... and your dreams exist..?

If so..... how can I be certain.. ?

I WANT PROOF!! !.........................;-)

-



Magnus
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25 Nov 2008, 11:44 am

What is consciousness? Is there energy in the brain that creates it? You can look at the brain and think you see a blob of grey matter but to the person who has the brain it is much more than that.

We can get deep into this but for the sake of simplicity I'd say meditate on it so you can experience it for yourself.
That is if you really want to know.


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traveller011212
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25 Nov 2008, 5:52 pm

The brain looks like a gray mass of meat but is in fact a very complex system. A biological electric network with the same limitation that a computer would have. We are unraveling how the mind works. In essence, there is not evidence that suggests that humans are nothing more than a complex chemical reaction. Really, we are the product of Entropy (which is the quantum phenomenon that says reality pushes for more possible states, and that energy needs to disperse within these ever expanding number of states).



SamAckary
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25 Nov 2008, 6:17 pm

As far as i'm concerned 'When I die, I rot' but i'm not going to be depressed about it, the sooner the better, no more doing anything I suppose, and until then i'll have the time of my life :D


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sinsboldly
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25 Nov 2008, 9:34 pm

Sand wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
-JR wrote:
And once that tea is drank, and later pissed out, is it ever going to be tea again?


it remains the original essence the liquid that is drank, the piss that is pissed out, still liquid, just as the original water from the spring was not the spring, not the tea.


Merle


The original essence with people, of course, is the basic atoms that make up a human being and nobody argues that death destroys atoms, merely that the highly complex organization of atoms that made up the human no longer exists. A jumble of atoms is not a human any more than a pile of bricks is architecture.


ah! you understand completely! The human is not the pile of bricks! the human is as the concept of architecture!

Merle


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dougn
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30 Nov 2008, 7:14 pm

Once I am dead I will cease to exist. I won't be able to feel anything, I won't know I'm dead or be able to feel sadness or unhappiness at being so... I will simply be no more. This is fine with me.