Single... again.... Depressed.... again.... Lonely.... again

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rynok,
well said... that is all...

Kim, sounds like I'm of the same opinion as you on this one, as above...

Guys - you're not quite interpreting the end part right where you're supposed to fight for the right to keep her.

It's not a test of whether she can get you on your knees.

It's a test as to whether you actually give a f**k about her or not. If you let her walk out then it's confirmed; she means nothing to you and she's better off finding someone who cares. But if you put up even a little bit of a fight - 'But I love you' is enough, most of the time - then it shows that her leaving will hurt you, therefore she actually holds some value in your life.

We like to know that we're worth something. Everyone does...everyone likes to know that someone cares about them. Something that a lot of AS people I've noticed fall off the wagon on, is they don't SHOW IT. As annoying as it is, people need small, regular reminders that they are valued...I can't emphasise this enough.

This is something I'm going through right now. After my messy break-up I decided that I no longer wanted to be friends with someone that was essentially torturing me - so I called it quits for the time being, don't want to see him again. I said maybe one day we'll be friends again. He simply said...that's your choice. When I drilled him for an opinion, he said he didn't have one.

WRONG ANSWER.

Once again, if you want to be friends with someone or more - you need to show you want it. People WILL NOT engage in a relationship of any kind with someone who isn't going to give anything in return emotionally.

Hopefully these will be good footnotes for anyone that may need them at any stage. GIVE A DAMN - you'll find that damn will be given in return

In the relationship, I'd show that I care.
If she has decided to call it off, I'm not going to beg or plead. That should never be expected, and testing "How much he cares" is a good way to lose yourself a great guy.

If he doesn't act like he cares during the relationship, ask him about it, don't say "Well, I guess that's it!" and be upset when he says, "Yep, looks like it is. Cya". Perhaps the words "Well, I'm sorry to hear that." would be suitable for the test, but any women that said "I don't want to be with you anymore" and changed her mind when the guy says "Please don't go, I love you"...I'm not so sure that's a women I'd want to be with anyways. If she doesn't say what she means, how can you trust her? How much of what she says is just a test? How do you know what she means and what she doesn't? It only takes one to end the relationship, and when one person says "I want to break up" then it's over and that's it. If that isn't what you mean, then don't say it, especially to someone that takes what you say literally. Isn't it easier to say, "I don't feel like you care about me" than it is to say "Um, we're through."? If I'm taking this totally wrong let me know, because I've dealt with similar issues in regards to this. (It wasn't really a relationship, but I was hoping it would be more than friendship as well)

Also, I don't agree with "fight for the right to keep her". If she wants to stay, I'd be glad to be with her. If she wants to go, who am I to not respect her wishes? It is because you care for her that you let her go instead of whining like a sissy.

As for Kim, I'm on her side as well, don't get me wrong. Sometimes things don't work out that are beyond your control and you need space, time to think, time apart, time to see other people, whatever. Life happens, you move on.

Rynok. If you want people that say exactly what they mean, word for word, you need to be dating the less-than-brilliant neanderthals down at the pub, drinking their beer and scratching their crotches as they watch the rugby with their mates.

NT women do not say the dictionary definition of what they mean. It's not our way. It's like making you speak in metaphors all day - doesn't work, and it's exhausting. I'm lucky, I'm able to 'translate' into 'this-is-how-it-is'...but it's a rarity.

If you want to be able to have a strong, successful relationship - while she needs to learn to understand the AS/Autistic mind to fulfil her end of the bargain, you guys too need to understand how the NT woman's mind might speak. You will NEVER understand exactly how we work (;)) but you can at least learn to predict how we roll.

Thing is - part of the reason it's in our nature to 'play a game' as it were, is because some of us consider it rude to just blurt out what we're thinking. There's also an element of 'This person's doing something stupid, and if he hasn't got it figured out he's a dope...let's give him some hints'. You need to read between the lines...it's easy-ish once you get into the swing of it, and opens a plethora of options and opportunities for socialising.

Then again, for a woman to turn around and say 'That's it, I'm outta here'...the guy has been repeatedly missing some MEGA hints, pointers, blow-outs and eff-ups for a while.

What the heck...here are some things that you might hear, and what they ACTUALLY mean.

Guy: "Hey, are you okay?"
Girl: "I'm fine."
(What she means is 'No, I'm not fine'. She's also either about to lash out or cry. May or may not be the guy's fault...you can get a sense for it when the time comes.)

Girl: "Whatever!"
(Final statement in an argument right there... that means 'I'm done listening to you...you're in BIG TROUBLE buddy...')

Girl: "I love you."
(Erm...this means 'I love you...now you better return the sentiment or I'll remove your brain through your left nostril...')

I'm sure everyone's seen all of these in 'funny' emails that have been circulating for at least ten years. They seem amusing and stereotypical. They are actually BANG ON TRUE.

So the final one that will be of use:

Girl: "That does it. We're through. I'm leaving."
(You know what this actually means? 'This is your last chance to prove you're worth having, or that you actually give a damn. You can capitalise on it...or you can suffer from EPIC FAIL.')

Don't think that 'leaving' is the end of the game, guys. It's your cue to get off your bum and do something about it. Don't let a relationship's responsibilities rest on her shoulders...try to understand her as much as you try to get her to understand your unique thinking. And DON'T be fooled into thinking that it all has to go downhill the whole way once it starts. You can turn the worst of relationships around into wonderful, passionate connections once all the MISUNDERSTANDINGS are cleared up. The process of such is often...loud. Just bloody persevere

So, another question then.
If she says, "That does it. We're through. I'm leaving." and I say "Please don't go, I care for you and would hate to be without you" and she feels sorry and comes back.
2 weeks later, she says "That does it. We're through. I'm leaving." and the guy wins her back again.
2 weeks after that, same story.

At which point should the guy say "You know what, I've had enough of her crap. Every 2 weeks she plays with my emotions and threatens to leave me."

To ring another bell, we're raised under the belief that when a girl says "No" that she means "No" and you don't push it from there. This looks like a very similar instance of her clearly stating something, and you'd do your best to pay attention to it. Is it a magic phrase where she has to say the same thing 3x in a row and tap her shoes together to show that she really means it?

(and yes, I know about the "Whatever" and "I love you" and stuff. It's a bit easier since "I love you" doesn't really mean "Please leave me alone you dirt bag")

Not to mention, I'd feel worse on a failed begging attempt than I would if I said nothing and she walked out.
Always more fish in the sea. Shouldn't have to lower yourself and your sense of pride just so they can feel like they have power over you.

The 'No means No' thing refers to trying to get up her skirt. If she says she doesn't want it, she's probably not playing hard to get

I believe you've assumed there isn't a massive conversation that follows the 'I'm leaving' speech - if it's gotten so bad she's threatening to walk out, there's a LOT of talking to do. This is where everyone puts their thoughts on the table, and 'airs the laundry' so to speak. What's pissing who off, but what you like about each other needs to come out too. This is where you find out whether you should truly call it quits, or whether it's worth working out your differences and trying again.

It's not a Monopoly-like game, consisting of short one-motion moves one after another. It's a far more strategic 'game' if it must be called that; there are rules of engagement that some understand better than others, which is precisely what makes relationships bumpy...and frankly...interesting.

It's not going to be 'I'm leaving!' 'But wait, I love you' 'Okay then', rinse and repeat every two weeks. You're likely to get ONE blow-out like that, several at the most throughout the entire relationship until everyone gets sick of it and walks for good.

This should be taken as the point where you realise that something is seriously wrong in the relationship. Either:

1) The two of you are not compatible...talk about it, try to separate amicably
2) The two of you have some major misunderstandings...talk it out as much as possible, find a resolution for what you can and work with what can't be 'fixed'
3) There is something getting in the way of the relationship (eg: a job or hobby gone crazy)...once again, it's talkies time. YOU CAN'T DODGE THIS in ANY relationship. Sorry. You can't keep on changing the subject et al; you'll need to talk about the sad stuff at some stage.

Yeah, what you seem to be talking about is the more desperate cry for help that gets thrown out there under the disguise of, "I think we should take a break" or "It's over" or what have you. I'd still be iffy on the "It's over" phrase.

In my case, the cry for help was followed by me saying "Well, that's bothersome and surprising both" at which point it was me trying to find out what went wrong (to prevent round 2) and her offering no help. As the story goes, I regretted having wasted my time saying anything at all. (Hence why I'm of the belief now that there is no use in fighting, might as well save your dignity for someone that's worth it.)

In the end, I guess I'm just saying to choose your words wisely. Everybody is different, and when one person says "No" they really mean "Yes" while another means exactly what she says. Just because a guy refuses to put his tail between his legs and submit to the girl doesn't mean he's a heartless creature. (Although if your looking for a guy like that, I'm sure there are plenty that are willing to be submissive, although I hear that isn't all that attractive either these days)

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

In all of my long term relationships I have been the one that has finished them. I get poems written and how much they love me and bla bla bla. They didnt bother being so expressive when we was in a relationships so why now..? and it's because they havnt got a other gf yet and they are hanging out for sex.
Although one of my xboyfriend got a other gf but he goes, 'I still think about you' if he still wanted me why, I think, didnt he make more of an effort not to act like an as*hole when we was together.

I am not saying all men are like this but when they know they got you and can have all the sex they want, they act like 'Brats' and then when you reject them or call it off, all of sudden they act so beautiful and caring.

Thats the same when they first meet you and are interested. They act like they are this and they are that and so respectful. Then after awhile in the relationship they start acting really selfish

+agree

They do get complacent in relationships after a while (hint hint hint guys, this might be a cause of 'its over') and forget to show they care, forget that they can't just fall into expecting food and sex all the time without giving back.

Women often end relationships when they feel unappreciated. It's precisely why I don't even want to be friends with my ex...he never showed appreciation for me despite the fact that I supported him when everyone else including family were prepared to let him rot. No one deserves to be treated like that - I wouldn't wish a relationship like that on my worst enemy.

Rynok - once again it's not a desperate cry for 'help', it's a last-ditch demand for some focus on the relationship. And if you consider a guy actually having to come to the table so to speak and discuss relationship woes being 'tail between the legs'...then yeah, boys at the pub are probably better. Most men don't really notice or comprehend the sort of small favours, submissions, miracles and biting-tongue-to-avoid-smashing-the-idiot moments women pull for men on a day-to-day basis, so the fact that women 'suddenly' explode in emotions remains a mystery to many. Understandable I suppose, until the blinkers can be pried off their faces. Until then they shouldn't be surprised when women go WTFBOOM - yet they will...they will always be caught off guard

Probably not as much of a bad thread hijack as it could have been. It's pretty relevant, and hopefully will add some perspective for anyone that's in the wars themselves.

Coming to the table to discuss the relationship, and begging for her not to leave, that's two different things. Nothing wrong with the first one, the second is ret*d and will only delay the inevitable. (Even if you figure out what's wrong, the REAL issue at heart is that she isn't telling you what bothers her until she's about to explode)

If something is happening that you don't appreciate, then I'd expect them to mention it. If they cook a meal and they don't get a word of appreciation, they should complain if it bothers them. Don't just "add it to the stack" and then one day simply explode because of "all the wrong" that has been done against you.

Also, don't act like girls don't get complacent, it works both ways. Do you think a stay at home wife makes sure to tell her husband how much she appreciates that he's working to bring home the family income? If she's not gonna give appreciation for that, why should he give appreciation for the fact that she cooked him dinner? Not to mention, some things are just expected of people, and it's understood that your not gonna get a "thanks" every time you do it. Personally, I don't wanna be "appreciated" every time I take out the trash, do the laundry, or come home from work. You say it too much, and it becomes insincere.

Wait wait wait, timeout...what's this obsession with 'begging'? There was no mention of it initially, and now it keeps on coming back. No one wants a wussy-boy that begs. Even a 'Hold on, what are you on about?' is a good enough response, and implies no girly-boy connotations.

Appreciation of the mundane things is important yes, and there are many other facets which deserve appreciation; and yes, it's risky business overdoing it for the obvious reasons. It's finding the safe ground between the two. As usual it's a balancing act. Relationships are about responsibility and effort, thinking about the other person involved.

It's possible to find the happy medium where the relationship is strong and loving - kinda relies on finding the right person though

You'll go through chicks like undies with an attitude like that, let me assure you Your choice though...

Kim,
Get the WHOLE story straight before you post things about mine and Joe's divorce! This is EVERY little thing about it:

We broke up TECHNICALLY in May 2007. He was gracious enough to let me stay in the apartment until July 2007, he didn't have to but he didn't want to see me out on the street. That's the big kind heart that my now ex-husband exhibits. He filed divorce in September 2007, September 11th, to be EXACT, since you're so nosy and you must know EVERY detail!! !! The state kept jerking us around on lawyers and such, so we mutually agreed to withdraw the divorce. Furthermore, he then learned that in order to LEGALLY file, we had to be separated for a full year. Research NY state divorce laws hunny, you'll know we're not lying..... He then again filed in July 2008, divorce was legally finalized August 28, 2008. And Joe, darlin, I know I told you I'd stay out of this but her crap has gone on FARRRRR too long. Kim, you're a jealous, pitiful woman who isn't worthy of the sweat that comes off of Joe's rear end, much less dating him. If you were "so in love" with Joe, you wouldn't have made countless excuses to not come and see him or made countless excuses every time he wanted to come see you. Sorry, but Joe is NOT the boy that he was in college. Joe is a totally different man. That's right, Joe's a man. Something you'll never know the definition of because you were quite frankly too blind to see it. He's changed a ton since I left him as well, and that's good for him. And yes, had he told me about him having AS things probably would have been totally different. Consider yourself lucky Kim, you GOT the chance to date Joe.... Anyways, Kim, get over yourself. Learn the FULL details before you even think about telling Joe to know anything. I think he knows more about the divorce than you do. And I was right, you didn't want Joe the man, you wanted the OLD Joe, the BOY from college.

Not so sincerely,
The EX wife

P.S. Sorry if this offends Joe, I had to get MY side in